Hi all'
I was wondering if a PP 2A3 amp would be able to drive a set of Wharfedale MFM-1's (90-91 dB 1watt/1meter) satifactorily? The thing that I'm concerned about is bass response. The amp will put out about 10 watts before clipping into an 8 ohm load. I listen to jazz and old rock & Roll (some new stuff). Opinions?
G
I was wondering if a PP 2A3 amp would be able to drive a set of Wharfedale MFM-1's (90-91 dB 1watt/1meter) satifactorily? The thing that I'm concerned about is bass response. The amp will put out about 10 watts before clipping into an 8 ohm load. I listen to jazz and old rock & Roll (some new stuff). Opinions?
G
Keep in mind that 100db is at 1 meter. At 2 meters it drops to 94db, at 4 meters it drops to 88db.
Every doubling of power gives a 3db increase. Every doubling of distance takes 6 db.
So, it depends on the room as well. Still though, unless your in a huge family room it should be loud enough. Your bass response will depend on the amp design and not the amount of power you push. Some say a SE 300B, or 2A3 is lacking in that area. I could'nt say as I've never heard one of them. Good Luck
Every doubling of power gives a 3db increase. Every doubling of distance takes 6 db.
So, it depends on the room as well. Still though, unless your in a huge family room it should be loud enough. Your bass response will depend on the amp design and not the amount of power you push. Some say a SE 300B, or 2A3 is lacking in that area. I could'nt say as I've never heard one of them. Good Luck
G,
if you don't want your eardrums to kiss each other, a PP 2A3 will be fine and if the amp is built properly, you will be happy with the low end reproduction. And with the rest too.
10Watts? only if the amp is running in AB1. On ClassA you won't get more than 7 Watts, rather 6 Watts. In classA you exactly get twice the SE power.
However, the better matched the tubes are, the better overall sound is.
So: don't go for expensive vintage 2A3 single plate, getting them match will make you broke. Hey, you could buy my 2 pairs of matched 2A3 single plate .. i got them for exactly that purpose ... then you have 2 pairs, enough for your amp. But after those are worn and you need new ones .. no, bad conscience, cannot recommend it.
You are better on with premium matched pairs of Sovtek 2A3 monoplate once you need nu tubes. And ... if the amp is designed to run with 15W plate dissipation max as is prescribed for pre1935 2A3, your Sovtek toobz run very conservatively. They rather make 25 than 18W plate dissipation. In fact, it's a 300B which just did miss the 300B marks. But it is sounding like 2A3. A very nice one.
if you don't want your eardrums to kiss each other, a PP 2A3 will be fine and if the amp is built properly, you will be happy with the low end reproduction. And with the rest too.
10Watts? only if the amp is running in AB1. On ClassA you won't get more than 7 Watts, rather 6 Watts. In classA you exactly get twice the SE power.
However, the better matched the tubes are, the better overall sound is.
So: don't go for expensive vintage 2A3 single plate, getting them match will make you broke. Hey, you could buy my 2 pairs of matched 2A3 single plate .. i got them for exactly that purpose ... then you have 2 pairs, enough for your amp. But after those are worn and you need new ones .. no, bad conscience, cannot recommend it.
You are better on with premium matched pairs of Sovtek 2A3 monoplate once you need nu tubes. And ... if the amp is designed to run with 15W plate dissipation max as is prescribed for pre1935 2A3, your Sovtek toobz run very conservatively. They rather make 25 than 18W plate dissipation. In fact, it's a 300B which just did miss the 300B marks. But it is sounding like 2A3. A very nice one.
2A3
Hi,
At home I use a PSE 2A3 amp with something no bigger than your Wharfedale at very satisfactory levels.
I never felt the need to push the volume control past 11.00.
I've been using the Svetlana 2A3s since the became available and in this amp they sound even better then any vintage 2A3 I threw in.
Definitely a lot better than the chinese stuff I used to use at first.
Ciao,
Hi,
At home I use a PSE 2A3 amp with something no bigger than your Wharfedale at very satisfactory levels.
I never felt the need to push the volume control past 11.00.
I've been using the Svetlana 2A3s since the became available and in this amp they sound even better then any vintage 2A3 I threw in.
Definitely a lot better than the chinese stuff I used to use at first.
Ciao,
I have used a 2W ECL82-SE amp with my speakers (89dB B&W DM100i bookshelf models) and it is quite loud, even with bass heavy music... Easily loud enough for reasonable listening levels, and actually gives a pretty good punch in the bass. Distortion only sets in at the absolute max (i use a little NFB) You can move the cones of the woofers by at least 2cm.
With 10W, you will be able to totally crank it. And if you are using sovtek 2a3s, you can run the plate dissipation up to 28W to get ~20W per channel in PP in class AB (pretty worthwhile if you use a little NFB).
~h~
With 10W, you will be able to totally crank it. And if you are using sovtek 2a3s, you can run the plate dissipation up to 28W to get ~20W per channel in PP in class AB (pretty worthwhile if you use a little NFB).
~h~
that should be enough
the amp I use (schematic posted here http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=7692&pagenumber=5 )
only puts out 3.8 watts. I use average studio type monitors and it gets PLENTY loud for living room listening.
Regards
Robert Morin
the amp I use (schematic posted here http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=7692&pagenumber=5 )
only puts out 3.8 watts. I use average studio type monitors and it gets PLENTY loud for living room listening.
Regards
Robert Morin
Thanks for the opinions guys. I think I'm going to get this for Christmas:
http://www.diycable.com/catalog/products/joplin.htm
It uses PCB's but it may not be too bad. I've read reviews on the Sovtek 2A3's and they sound like they will fill the bill. I'm going to retire my NAD integrated and go all tube.
G
http://www.diycable.com/catalog/products/joplin.htm
It uses PCB's but it may not be too bad. I've read reviews on the Sovtek 2A3's and they sound like they will fill the bill. I'm going to retire my NAD integrated and go all tube.
G
That's a very good point. I hadn't seen that. I'm not going to swallow that shipping cost for them. That's a shrewd business plan. Instead of importing the parts and stocking them you let the customer pay the duty on the kit. They won't be getting my money. I guess that narrows it down to one of Gabe's Kits. I really wanted a 2A3 amp though. Big bummer. I knew it was too good of a price.
G
I knew it was too good of a price.G
The shipping surprised me too. I thought with a US agent, they'd have stock and despatch from the US.G said:That's a very good point. I hadn't seen that. I'm not going to swallow that shipping cost for them. That's a shrewd business plan. Instead of importing the parts and stocking them you let the customer pay the duty on the kit. They won't be getting my money. I guess that narrows it down to one of Gabe's Kits. I really wanted a 2A3 amp though. Big bummer.
But why give up on a 2A3? Why not just scratch build it? It's certainly more effort in collecting all the parts, but there's not much in them. There was a thread here recently about the Ralph Power 6B4G (2A3 with a 6.2V filament) which lots of people have built and liked well.
G said:That's a very good point. I hadn't seen that. I'm not going to swallow that shipping cost for them. That's a shrewd business plan. Instead of importing the parts and stocking them you let the customer pay the duty on the kit. They won't be getting my money. I guess that narrows it down to one of Gabe's Kits. I really wanted a 2A3 amp though. Big bummer.
DIYcable is acting as a distributor for Brian Cherry on these amps http://www.diyhifisupply.com/diy_kits/the_joplin.html -- they are probably quite good knowing Brian (ex-Pat Canuck), but the way they are priced from diycable leaves a bit to be desired. He would get more respect if the shipping was just buried n the price. Even $775 USD for the kit is probably pretty reasoanable. (and i think given the way things are laid out, diycable is responsible for all duties & custom's costs.
Now as a circuit board kit it is probably a pretty easy thing to put together.
What would it take to build one up from scratch using Hammond, or other NA iron supplier? Certainly P-P wiring has the potential to wring more out of the circuit. You could use an interstage phase splitter or Allen Wright's differential front-end or a number of others - we know Dice45 is using something like this already and having gathered together the 2A3s to build a PP has given it a lot of thot...
dave
Shipping costs
G said above: "I'm not going to swallow that shipping cost for them. That's a shrewd business plan. Instead of importing the parts and stocking them you let the customer pay the duty on the kit. They won't be getting my money. I guess that narrows it down to one of Gabe's Kits. "
Don't take it as "shrewd" in the sense of trickery. Brian (diyhifisupply) and Kevin (diycable) are both upfront people who bring a pretty good value to DIY kits.
I have talked to Kevin on this point in person. He has a small business. He can't afford to drop ship tons of the stuff and carry an inventory. He just cannot do it. The cost of doing that would be as much as shipping. Peolpe are not used to paying to ship and insure trannies around the world and so it freaks them out. Did me too a little until I talked to them
Both are good guys who are into it becasue they love it. Neither is out to make a killing of trick anybody.
Brian has a new forum at the AA and they would be more than happy to talk about it. http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/DIYHiFi/bbs.html
I have no ties to the place at all.
I've never had the chance to hear Gabe's stuff. I'm certain it's good. Gabe has a very helpful site if you are starting out in tubes..Worth the read from start to end. I like Gabe for that alone. Never met him.
I have an outline of diy online electronics info (live links) that might be a littel help if you are starting out. if you (anyone) would like a copy email me.
Cheers,
Craig Ryder
G said above: "I'm not going to swallow that shipping cost for them. That's a shrewd business plan. Instead of importing the parts and stocking them you let the customer pay the duty on the kit. They won't be getting my money. I guess that narrows it down to one of Gabe's Kits. "
Don't take it as "shrewd" in the sense of trickery. Brian (diyhifisupply) and Kevin (diycable) are both upfront people who bring a pretty good value to DIY kits.
I have talked to Kevin on this point in person. He has a small business. He can't afford to drop ship tons of the stuff and carry an inventory. He just cannot do it. The cost of doing that would be as much as shipping. Peolpe are not used to paying to ship and insure trannies around the world and so it freaks them out. Did me too a little until I talked to them
Both are good guys who are into it becasue they love it. Neither is out to make a killing of trick anybody.
Brian has a new forum at the AA and they would be more than happy to talk about it. http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/DIYHiFi/bbs.html
I have no ties to the place at all.
I've never had the chance to hear Gabe's stuff. I'm certain it's good. Gabe has a very helpful site if you are starting out in tubes..Worth the read from start to end. I like Gabe for that alone. Never met him.
I have an outline of diy online electronics info (live links) that might be a littel help if you are starting out. if you (anyone) would like a copy email me.
Cheers,
Craig Ryder
Iwould like to build a amp from scratch except here's the catch, I never have built one point to point wired, from scratch. I'm basically going to sell a whole bunch of audio stuff that I have bought on Ebay and finance a kit so that I can actually listen to a tube amp. I have been learning and studying and buying parts to build something for about two years know and I am no closer to getting something built than I was two years ago. I guess that I have gotten to the point that I am so exasperated at not having anything to show for my money and time(my fault) that I'm ready to build a kit so I have something to listen to while I continue to learn. I'm not going to give up or anything. It's just that I'm ready for some results and some Diana Krall being played through a reasonably good tube amp(although she sounds fine through a NAD integrated also). At this point I'm not sure of my ability to pit together a tube amp well enough that it will sound good with no hum and all of that good stuff. I do have some output transformers from an old Fisher X-101C that I can use for a 6B4B Push pull though. Like I said I'm not giving up, just taking as step back and regaining a little focus. Indecision is a pain.
G
G
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