Hello
One of my friends arsked me to build a amplifier.
He wanted 20 watt and SE. Two monobloks. Separate PSU.
I think 20 watt is OK because in the moment he is using a 22 watt PP amplifier he has borrowd and the room is +25 sqrm.
BUT 20 watts SE is not easy and he want a good sound.
I think the OPT must be Lundahls and the capasitores Jensen but what schematic/tube type can You recommend.
PSE KT88 can do 20 watt, but other excotics type as 211, 811, 813, 845, SV572 or 6C33 can also do 20 watt.
Help ( experience ) wanted.
If it sound well I think I will build two to my self to
Benny
One of my friends arsked me to build a amplifier.
He wanted 20 watt and SE. Two monobloks. Separate PSU.
I think 20 watt is OK because in the moment he is using a 22 watt PP amplifier he has borrowd and the room is +25 sqrm.
BUT 20 watts SE is not easy and he want a good sound.
I think the OPT must be Lundahls and the capasitores Jensen but what schematic/tube type can You recommend.
PSE KT88 can do 20 watt, but other excotics type as 211, 811, 813, 845, SV572 or 6C33 can also do 20 watt.
Help ( experience ) wanted.
If it sound well I think I will build two to my self to
Benny
Seriously, that's a LOT of power for such a small room especially if the speakers are fairly efficient. Anyhow, you might want to take a look at KR tubes. They claim 22W class A for the 842VHD model and even 20-24W for their 300B models. Not cheap though (~500€/pair). And of course, you need lots of voltage.
Hojvaelde,
>> 20 watt and SE
>> PSE KT88 can do 20 watt, but other excotics type as 211, 811, 813, 845,
>> SV572 or 6C33 can also do 20 watt.
Wouahhh > 20 watt and SE ; is this first condition highly important ? Or 18 watts
could do it?
For SE its douable with 2 * 6C33C-B ==> 32/36 watts
with 1 tube it's only 16/18 watts max {}
see schematics from Ari Polisois: http://www.valvediy.com/simplexpg1.html
{I am building the Simplex } Ari published last year a SE with a triplet
of 6C33C-B for 45 watts on AudioXpress.
http://www.jogis-roehrenbude.de/Leserbriefe/Roessler-6C33-Amp/Beschreibung.htm
>30 watts the problem is a custom OPT, price will be high.
SE with 300B:
AUDIO NOTE CONQUEST 18W Classe A with 2 * 300B in //
SE with 211 tube
ONGAKU Audio Note Single Ended classe A 25 with 211 tubes
{> 850 volts ; it's the Best! in all classes!}
Push-Pull: Attention here you get power but loose the flower of second harmonic distortion for 3rd harmonic distortion and negative feedback...
On the Push-Pull side 6C33C-B at 70 watts
See the articles by Menno at plitron:
http://www.plitron.com/PDF/PB/specs/pat4144-00.pdf
For the 300B Push-pull at 30 watts
Push-Pull: http://www.plitron.com/PDF/PB/specs/pat4150-00.pdf
EL34 Push-pull at 25 watts
http://www.plitron.com/PDF/PB/specs/pat4148-00.pdf
It's my own view for SE ; perhaps someone can lead to other choices.
Alain.
>> 20 watt and SE
>> PSE KT88 can do 20 watt, but other excotics type as 211, 811, 813, 845,
>> SV572 or 6C33 can also do 20 watt.
Wouahhh > 20 watt and SE ; is this first condition highly important ? Or 18 watts
could do it?
For SE its douable with 2 * 6C33C-B ==> 32/36 watts
with 1 tube it's only 16/18 watts max {}
see schematics from Ari Polisois: http://www.valvediy.com/simplexpg1.html
{I am building the Simplex } Ari published last year a SE with a triplet
of 6C33C-B for 45 watts on AudioXpress.
http://www.jogis-roehrenbude.de/Leserbriefe/Roessler-6C33-Amp/Beschreibung.htm
>30 watts the problem is a custom OPT, price will be high.
SE with 300B:
AUDIO NOTE CONQUEST 18W Classe A with 2 * 300B in //
SE with 211 tube
ONGAKU Audio Note Single Ended classe A 25 with 211 tubes
{> 850 volts ; it's the Best! in all classes!}
Push-Pull: Attention here you get power but loose the flower of second harmonic distortion for 3rd harmonic distortion and negative feedback...
On the Push-Pull side 6C33C-B at 70 watts
See the articles by Menno at plitron:
http://www.plitron.com/PDF/PB/specs/pat4144-00.pdf
For the 300B Push-pull at 30 watts
Push-Pull: http://www.plitron.com/PDF/PB/specs/pat4150-00.pdf
EL34 Push-pull at 25 watts
http://www.plitron.com/PDF/PB/specs/pat4148-00.pdf
It's my own view for SE ; perhaps someone can lead to other choices.
Alain.
813 in SE ultra linear is easy to drive and simple PSU. You would end up with an amp like a SE 6BQ5/EL84 with lot's of power (25 watts easy). I am awaiting output xfmers from Handwave for this proposed experiment myself. For the past two years waiting!
There is a Euro version of the 813 without a plate cap. I forget the number. Use that one.
There is a Euro version of the 813 without a plate cap. I forget the number. Use that one.
Hi Benny
Look at my homepage www.micro-io.dk. I have used the 6c33 and i get 36Watt from them with homemade transformers.
Best regards Kim Olesen
PS: du kan finde mit telefon nummer på krak (se under feedback på min hjemmeside) hvis du vil vide mere.
Look at my homepage www.micro-io.dk. I have used the 6c33 and i get 36Watt from them with homemade transformers.
Best regards Kim Olesen
PS: du kan finde mit telefon nummer på krak (se under feedback på min hjemmeside) hvis du vil vide mere.
An 5-10W SE amp relatively will be as loud as a 20W PP amp.
I would build parallell-SE EL84. That gives 10W. And EL84 sounds as nice as the gold-priced "super-audiophile" DHT-triodes. Anyway the quality of the amp depends more on the output transformer, PSU, driving. The type of the output tube isn't the first.
Or you could try 6L6GC, KT88, EL34, 807 etc... These are popular, cheaper, but also good-sounding tubes.
Regards,
I would do PP
Seriously, 807 PSE sounds VERY good. So does KT90, talking about unusual tubes. Or, if you can find any, EL156
Also medium-small transmitting triodes sound good. A normal 845 SE is pretty straightforward, iron is everywhere and you'll get 20W without stressing the tubes.
However, given the price of China 845 (which sound good), I would go A2 aka Powerdrive (www.tubelab.com) and get the full 40W.
Maybe you could scale down it and use 300B instead
Seriously, 807 PSE sounds VERY good. So does KT90, talking about unusual tubes. Or, if you can find any, EL156
Also medium-small transmitting triodes sound good. A normal 845 SE is pretty straightforward, iron is everywhere and you'll get 20W without stressing the tubes.
However, given the price of China 845 (which sound good), I would go A2 aka Powerdrive (www.tubelab.com) and get the full 40W.
Maybe you could scale down it and use 300B instead
Before this thread drifts into a discussion about the merrits of SS versus tube amplification let me remind some that the original poster has asked a direct question. The question, as I read it, is about single ended options to produce 20 watts RMS because a friend already experiencing 22 watts push-pull has requested Single Ended.
Earlier I offered a SE penode 813 as an option because it is S I M P L E to implement and I'm told sounds good.
As further contribution I can suggest that 6080's in parallel A1 ultrafeed and paracoupled can sound mighty good and can be set up without paying full fare for an expensive outoput xfmer like a Lundal. I am slowly working on just such a 20+ watt design on the bench now which employs four bottles per channel (8 triodes in parallel) and it sounds fabulous although only the output stage has been prototyped so far.
I also question that the caps "must" be Jensen. There are very top sound quality caps available that do not carry boutique names, and therefore are not burdened with boutique prices.
Hojvaelde said:Hello
One of my friends arsked me to build a amplifier.
He wanted 20 watt and SE. Two monobloks. Separate PSU.
I think 20 watt is OK because in the moment he is using a 22 watt PP amplifier he has borrowd and the room is +25 sqrm.
BUT 20 watts SE is not easy and he want a good sound.
I think the OPT must be Lundahls and the capasitores Jensen but what schematic/tube type can You recommend.
PSE KT88 can do 20 watt, but other excotics type as 211, 811, 813, 845, SV572 or 6C33 can also do 20 watt.
Help ( experience ) wanted.
If it sound well I think I will build two to my self to
Benny
Earlier I offered a SE penode 813 as an option because it is S I M P L E to implement and I'm told sounds good.
As further contribution I can suggest that 6080's in parallel A1 ultrafeed and paracoupled can sound mighty good and can be set up without paying full fare for an expensive outoput xfmer like a Lundal. I am slowly working on just such a 20+ watt design on the bench now which employs four bottles per channel (8 triodes in parallel) and it sounds fabulous although only the output stage has been prototyped so far.
I also question that the caps "must" be Jensen. There are very top sound quality caps available that do not carry boutique names, and therefore are not burdened with boutique prices.
i am currently building one with eimac 250tl
also you may consider using gm70 tube and take a look at the site gm70
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GM70/
also you may consider using gm70 tube and take a look at the site gm70
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GM70/
ErikdeBest said:
Then there is no other option than waiting a bit
Don't wait for me if you want an amp in your lifetime. I started this amp project with a fury about three years ago, even making my own output toroids. I got a circuit breadboarded after much trial, change, trial, etc. Then the working prototype has sat abandoned tying up a entire workbench in the lab now for almost three years. I have too much on my plate.
rdf said:
RDF,
You are probably right and I was mistaken apparently about this one.
I had a quad of 813's and have been looking for them now since the last move almost ten years ago without success. I am looking for some good used 813's if anyone has spares they will part with free or cheap please let me know. They won't be re-sold, I just wanna play.
Thanks. PSE EL509
Hello
Thanks friends. I got a lot of input to my brainstorming.
I think it must be a 813 based amplifier. 845 need 1500 Volts
and a lot of driving power.
The EL509 based amplifier is to small. Sorry.
What about PSE screen dreven EL509. Is that a problem?
Regards and thanks
Benny
Hello
Thanks friends. I got a lot of input to my brainstorming.
I think it must be a 813 based amplifier. 845 need 1500 Volts
and a lot of driving power. The EL509 based amplifier is to small. Sorry.
What about PSE screen dreven EL509. Is that a problem?
Regards and thanks
Benny
Re: Thanks. PSE EL509
Is the reason he wants you to build him an amp because you offered to save him $$$$ that way? The reason I ask is because for in the $1500.00 range you can now get very sweet SE triode integrated stereo amps from China that use the 845 and also the more powerful 805.
I have just such an 805 amp and although heavily modified in the power supply it retains the original audio circuit. I absolutely love the sound, and the command of the bass that comes from the big reserve of power on tap (40 watts/ch.).
The 813 SE ultralinear amp design I mentioned is not a triode and as a pentode will have a different harmonic signature to a pure triode with higher levels of higher odd order harmonics. The UL config makes it look electronically more like a triode than a pure pentode but there is still a difference. This sound may not be to your friends liking. It would be a shame to go to all the trouble to build something and end up with less than what is desired. I really like the simple implementation offered by a SE UL 813, but have not yet had the chance to build and evaluate one for myself. Some folks have and there are various articles about it on the internet.
Having said this, the much loved 6BQ5/EL84 is also a pentode and in SE can sound quite fabulous when matched to the right speaker, so like anything else in the end you may have to just try it and see. If there is one thing I know that is an absolute fact, in tube audio one cannot merely grab an amp at random, and a speaker system at random based on wattage or efficiency ratings and expect the best sound, but as happens often a synergistic combo may be found that is a match made in heaven and the results are magical. This is what drives us tube-o-philes, me anyway.
Hojvaelde said:Hello
Thanks friends. I got a lot of input to my brainstorming.
I think it must be a 813 based amplifier. 845 need 1500 Volts
The EL509 based amplifier is to small. Sorry.
What about PSE screen dreven EL509. Is that a problem?
Regards and thanks
Benny
Is the reason he wants you to build him an amp because you offered to save him $$$$ that way? The reason I ask is because for in the $1500.00 range you can now get very sweet SE triode integrated stereo amps from China that use the 845 and also the more powerful 805.
I have just such an 805 amp and although heavily modified in the power supply it retains the original audio circuit. I absolutely love the sound, and the command of the bass that comes from the big reserve of power on tap (40 watts/ch.).
The 813 SE ultralinear amp design I mentioned is not a triode and as a pentode will have a different harmonic signature to a pure triode with higher levels of higher odd order harmonics. The UL config makes it look electronically more like a triode than a pure pentode but there is still a difference. This sound may not be to your friends liking. It would be a shame to go to all the trouble to build something and end up with less than what is desired. I really like the simple implementation offered by a SE UL 813, but have not yet had the chance to build and evaluate one for myself. Some folks have and there are various articles about it on the internet.
Having said this, the much loved 6BQ5/EL84 is also a pentode and in SE can sound quite fabulous when matched to the right speaker, so like anything else in the end you may have to just try it and see. If there is one thing I know that is an absolute fact, in tube audio one cannot merely grab an amp at random, and a speaker system at random based on wattage or efficiency ratings and expect the best sound, but as happens often a synergistic combo may be found that is a match made in heaven and the results are magical. This is what drives us tube-o-philes, me anyway.
Hello Bob
No not to save money. I am very interrested in tubes.
I am working 9 to 5 with microprocessores and components in size 0402 and 0603.
To build tube amplifiers is relaxing for me. I have build 3 RIAA and a Dynaco Mk III clone.
I know I want to build a 813 based SE amplifier to my self. My only problem is now to designe a chassis i wood/alu I am satisfied with.
Regards
Benny
No not to save money. I am very interrested in tubes.
I am working 9 to 5 with microprocessores and components in size 0402 and 0603.
To build tube amplifiers is relaxing for me. I have build 3 RIAA and a Dynaco Mk III clone.
I know I want to build a 813 based SE amplifier to my self. My only problem is now to designe a chassis i wood/alu I am satisfied with.
Regards
Benny
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