Re: To all, and especially Halojoy
There are many roads that goes to Roma in Italy.
Either road you take that goes to Roma
will get you there.
If you can enjoy your music and feel fine, this is the main thing.
Hifi is just a tool. Not the real thing!
Like the computers only are a tools, that can bring people together.
The experience you get is the real thing! in your mind.
Even if that experience is made up of more than your hearing.
So let us never forget to have some music in our posts.
To bring some comfort and enjoyment to others.
And for not to forget the main thing.
"One things for certain, when it comes my time
I'll leave this old world with a satisfied mind"
somebody said or sang
You should do whatever keep YOUR mind satisfied.dhaen said:
There are many roads that goes to Roma in Italy.
Either road you take that goes to Roma
will get you there.
If you can enjoy your music and feel fine, this is the main thing.
Hifi is just a tool. Not the real thing!
Like the computers only are a tools, that can bring people together.
The experience you get is the real thing! in your mind.
Even if that experience is made up of more than your hearing.
So let us never forget to have some music in our posts.
To bring some comfort and enjoyment to others.
And for not to forget the main thing.
"One things for certain, when it comes my time
I'll leave this old world with a satisfied mind"
somebody said or sang
Halojoy said:
Anyway, why is Sweden such fun, fun, fun..?
Is it the ability to laugh at people who spend lots of money on unnecessary transformers?
Actually, the transformers pay for themselves after about 40K hours, assuming equal performance.
Thanks for replying,
John
Hell, (no pun intended) my mind is in permanent termoil; that's why I converse on this forum.... Only a certain young blond jazz singer playing in the background keeps me sane.
Anyway, why is Sweden such fun, fun, fun..?
Is it the ability to laugh at people who spend lots of money on unnecessary transformers?
Actually, the transformers pay for themselves after about 40K hours, assuming equal performance.
Thanks for replying,
John
MAGNETRONS?
Hi,
If they're only paying for themselves after 40K hours I would consider that a bad investment.
As with most things there are pros and cons to the use of either xformers and CFs'.
In other words as long as I don't see a diagram of the circuit involved what can I say.
On a more general note:
Xformers are more expensive.
Heavier.
Usually don't have very extended bandwith.
Consume a lot more real estate.
Magnetically decouple the previous stage (provided there is no sharing of B+ between the two!)
Better suited for lesser tube count drive requirements.
CFs need to be carefully designed.
Require heater power.
Need to be replaced every 15 to 20 years.
Linearize and buffer the preceding circuit.
Can drive a bunch of tubes with real drive power.
Probably I missed a couple of things on both counts but:
My ears adore wide bandwidth designs which is why I am a dedicated non-follower of fashion (sounds Kinky).
Enough food for thought?
Cherio,
P.S. Can we put Halojoy forward as our local minstrel?
Hi,
If they're only paying for themselves after 40K hours I would consider that a bad investment.
As with most things there are pros and cons to the use of either xformers and CFs'.
In other words as long as I don't see a diagram of the circuit involved what can I say.
On a more general note:
Xformers are more expensive.
Heavier.
Usually don't have very extended bandwith.
Consume a lot more real estate.
Magnetically decouple the previous stage (provided there is no sharing of B+ between the two!)
Better suited for lesser tube count drive requirements.
CFs need to be carefully designed.
Require heater power.
Need to be replaced every 15 to 20 years.
Linearize and buffer the preceding circuit.
Can drive a bunch of tubes with real drive power.
Probably I missed a couple of things on both counts but:
My ears adore wide bandwidth designs which is why I am a dedicated non-follower of fashion (sounds Kinky).
Enough food for thought?
Cherio,
P.S. Can we put Halojoy forward as our local minstrel?
Frank,
you know already, i am not all too fond of being misquoted.
For clarification: with load i do not mean the following cable or stage. I mean the load resisitor, the cathode resistor. The cathode resistor must be of high value and connected to B- or it shold be replaced by a CCS.
Nothing wrong with a CF in my book. Except with a CF having something like a 20k cathode resistor to ground.
To whom it may concern,
i have read a lot of criticism about moderators here and in the other thread. I prefered to stay outside (apart from throwing some technical info in) because one of the guys complaining about moderator action here complained about abuse of my moderator power in private to me. Great, now he complains about the next moderator. In public. And how poor he does his job. And has company.
All i can see is that the discussion on tube preamps is back on track and healthy. And the struggle is down. So the criticized moderator cannot be so bad after all.
And you complainers want to make clothing prescriptions to the moderators. A "howto" concerning proper use of headwear? You tell me when i shall stop laughing?
-------------------------
Bernhard
(diyAudio moderator)
you know already, i am not all too fond of being misquoted.
I never said that. I said that according to the experimental findings descibed in the V&W guru book, a CF should work into an (almost) infinite load.
For clarification: with load i do not mean the following cable or stage. I mean the load resisitor, the cathode resistor. The cathode resistor must be of high value and connected to B- or it shold be replaced by a CCS.
Nothing wrong with a CF in my book. Except with a CF having something like a 20k cathode resistor to ground.
To whom it may concern,
i have read a lot of criticism about moderators here and in the other thread. I prefered to stay outside (apart from throwing some technical info in) because one of the guys complaining about moderator action here complained about abuse of my moderator power in private to me. Great, now he complains about the next moderator. In public. And how poor he does his job. And has company.
All i can see is that the discussion on tube preamps is back on track and healthy. And the struggle is down. So the criticized moderator cannot be so bad after all.
And you complainers want to make clothing prescriptions to the moderators. A "howto" concerning proper use of headwear? You tell me when i shall stop laughing?
-------------------------
Bernhard
(diyAudio moderator)
STARTING A FIRE?
Hi Bernhard,
Neither am I fond of people pulling things out of context.
Didn't I say that in this particular case you were correct in pointing it out?
Just don't make general claims about this or that unless you have solid it proof of what you say.
And you should also know that a book on theory just doesn't cut it.
I honestly don't feel it's either my task nor place to moderate a moderator.
Best regards,
Frank.
Hi Bernhard,
Neither am I fond of people pulling things out of context.
Didn't I say that in this particular case you were correct in pointing it out?
Just don't make general claims about this or that unless you have solid it proof of what you say.
And you should also know that a book on theory just doesn't cut it.
I honestly don't feel it's either my task nor place to moderate a moderator.
Best regards,
Frank.
My preference is for the IT, with a couple of caveats.dhaen said:
When I mentioned in a previous post about CFs having some advantages, I should have added, when properly implemented with a CCS as a cathode load, as Bernhard mentions in ref to V&W.
But an IT works in that situation too, providing a high impedance AC load to the power tube grid, as well as a low impedance DC path. A grid choke could also be used, but that will reuire a capacitor for DC decoupling between stages. And irrespective of what the curves say, I find a well designed and implemented piece of iron for be <b><i>far</i></b> less musically intrusive than any cap I've ever heard.
In a two stage poweramp like Lynn Olson's Amity, an IT also has the advantage of providing dynamic balance adjustment, consumes less real estate than a CF/CCS combo, less heat and power or complicated biassing (all of which add their own problems and compromises), does not drift either dynamically (in real time response to a signal) or over the longer term. It will still be working exactly as is in 50 years. Well designed and implemented, bandwidth won't be an issue either.
Factoring in the extra complication of a CF/CCS, and it's associated cost, I don't see there is much between them in terms of overall amplifier performance or cost. Depends what you like the most, and how it's implemented.
John, out of curiousity, are you using the iron as an anode load, or in parafeed, SE->SE, SE->PP or PP->PP?
However, now you have the iron, why don't you try both for a while and report back your findings and any measurements if possible.
Re: Re: To all, and especially Halojoy
A very nice song, especially with a cathode follower
or a Pass Amplifier
http://seaghull.home.texas.net/satisfiedl.html
at last, I did find the lyrics to a "satisfied mind"halojoy said:
A very nice song, especially with a cathode follower
or a Pass Amplifier
http://seaghull.home.texas.net/satisfiedl.html
Brett,
fully agreed. No own experience in using signal xfrmrs as CF load, but what i hear from buddies is so encouraging that i would like to try it out myself in a balanced all-E180F preamp with CF line stage.
Still searching for the right piece of iron, 1+1:1+1, capable of tolerating some mA of imbalance.
Another interesting option could be to use the circuit from V & W p454, fig.11.35, diffential cathode follower, but this would ask for CCS loads for both tubes with the OPT primary floating and connected to the cathodes....
fully agreed. No own experience in using signal xfrmrs as CF load, but what i hear from buddies is so encouraging that i would like to try it out myself in a balanced all-E180F preamp with CF line stage.
Still searching for the right piece of iron, 1+1:1+1, capable of tolerating some mA of imbalance.
Another interesting option could be to use the circuit from V & W p454, fig.11.35, diffential cathode follower, but this would ask for CCS loads for both tubes with the OPT primary floating and connected to the cathodes....
Frank,
not starting a fire, apart from my unease being misquoted (itching me way worse than being insulted), i did not mean you. Not the least.
But i find it interesting you take it that way. Very interesting.
I'd just like to remind you that the fact i stepped back on being insulted and let another moderator handle the case is in no way a gurantee i do it the same way next time. Or, should i do it, a guarantee the moderator in charge will be as gentle as last time.
During your sin bin, we had a lot of private email communication, remember?
'Fraid i have to admit to myself my effort was wasted; i could not observe you took any of the hints i gave you .... hints that an independent observer probably would judge as benevolent.
---------------------------
Bernhard
not starting a fire, apart from my unease being misquoted (itching me way worse than being insulted), i did not mean you. Not the least.
But i find it interesting you take it that way. Very interesting.
I'd just like to remind you that the fact i stepped back on being insulted and let another moderator handle the case is in no way a gurantee i do it the same way next time. Or, should i do it, a guarantee the moderator in charge will be as gentle as last time.
During your sin bin, we had a lot of private email communication, remember?
'Fraid i have to admit to myself my effort was wasted; i could not observe you took any of the hints i gave you .... hints that an independent observer probably would judge as benevolent.
---------------------------
Bernhard
I'm curious if anyone else has tried using an active FET as an element in a hybrid CF? In my preamp, the CF is complemented by a p-channel source follower (i.e., working down, B+, tube, cathode bias resistor, output, source bias resistor, pFET, B-, with the grid and the gate connected together as the input and put at DC ground). Sorry for the verbal description, I don't have schematic capture software.
The penalty is a slightly higher output Z (the parallel Z of [tube source Z + Rk] with [FET source Z + Rs]), but it's still only a few hundred ohms. Advantage is source/sink capability and reduced distortion compared with CF or source follower alone. A servo nulls the offset.
The penalty is a slightly higher output Z (the parallel Z of [tube source Z + Rk] with [FET source Z + Rs]), but it's still only a few hundred ohms. Advantage is source/sink capability and reduced distortion compared with CF or source follower alone. A servo nulls the offset.
Dave said:
IMO There is a subliminal intimacy in her breathing and timing.
Brett,
Previously I was running a 6550 CF off +200v'ish -250v @15mA DC coupled to the output (845) valve's grid. Bias was applied to the 6550 grid.
SY,
What I'm really looking for is that illusive PNP valve; you know, the kind that emit holes?
Precisely right Dave. Do I have to Krall over you to get to her?
IMO There is a subliminal intimacy in her breathing and timing.
Brett,
It's SE->SE. Pretty conventional stuff, but I haven't been mean on the iron. The driver (VV32) runs at 500v 40mA. The driver transformer is 10cmx10cmx10cm (potted) c-core, bifilar wound.
Previously I was running a 6550 CF off +200v'ish -250v @15mA DC coupled to the output (845) valve's grid. Bias was applied to the 6550 grid.
SY,
What I'm really looking for is that illusive PNP valve; you know, the kind that emit holes?
dhaen said:
Not at all... i understand she mostly hangs out in NYNY these days. Nanaimo thou is just about an hour north of here, and we go up once every 4-6 weeks to scoure the 2nd hand stores...
There are some others from the island that are good too, Nelly Furtado comes to mind.
dave
BELOW THE BELT?
Bernhard,
Likely I did misquote you and for that I apologize.
What bothers me though is why you feel the need to put your innermind musings here on my expense.
That I find very low and does not reflect very well on yourself nor do I fail to see how the forum is going to benefit from it.
In fact quite to the contrary:
You feel the need to put a number of members in a bad light and by the same token the moderator(s) replacing you.
Let me inform you that nothing out of the ordinary happened and that everything was straightened out as swiftly as possible.
Thanks to all involved and a moderator that was doing the best he could to please everyone.
If this is your way of thanking members that contribute in their best possible way and your fellow moderator(s) along with it than I really don't know what we are all doing here.
You force me to go public with this so I'll take the consequences when you change persona.
Best regards,
Bernhard,
Likely I did misquote you and for that I apologize.
What bothers me though is why you feel the need to put your innermind musings here on my expense.
That I find very low and does not reflect very well on yourself nor do I fail to see how the forum is going to benefit from it.
In fact quite to the contrary:
You feel the need to put a number of members in a bad light and by the same token the moderator(s) replacing you.
Let me inform you that nothing out of the ordinary happened and that everything was straightened out as swiftly as possible.
Thanks to all involved and a moderator that was doing the best he could to please everyone.
If this is your way of thanking members that contribute in their best possible way and your fellow moderator(s) along with it than I really don't know what we are all doing here.
You force me to go public with this so I'll take the consequences when you change persona.
Best regards,
Ok, so I'm finally getting around to reading all this, and the preamp posts.
Let me just say this, and then I'll let it drop.
There seems to be a general concensus on this forum about what is "good" design, and what isn't. About what "sounds good" and what doesn't. And there is an undertone of hostility towards those few members who do not think the same way. By posting comments saying that you don't believe in the different sounds of capacitors, you will get several condescending, or insulting posts hurled back at you. If you cannot quote from a "guru", you are labled un-informed. This is unfortunate.
I never said "all tubes sound the same". I am not an idiot. I know damn well that if you replace a 6SN7 with a 6SL7, it will work and sound differently. I never said SRPP is bad. I never said chokes or IT's are bad. Yet, some members feel obligated to insult me because I suggest alternate circuits.
If you think gold foil capacitors with a linen dielectric made from mummy wrappings sounds better than anything else, fine. But don't attack me because I don't. This has become, sadly, a hobby about spending money, and following the latest dogma.
Let me just say this, and then I'll let it drop.
There seems to be a general concensus on this forum about what is "good" design, and what isn't. About what "sounds good" and what doesn't. And there is an undertone of hostility towards those few members who do not think the same way. By posting comments saying that you don't believe in the different sounds of capacitors, you will get several condescending, or insulting posts hurled back at you. If you cannot quote from a "guru", you are labled un-informed. This is unfortunate.
I never said "all tubes sound the same". I am not an idiot. I know damn well that if you replace a 6SN7 with a 6SL7, it will work and sound differently. I never said SRPP is bad. I never said chokes or IT's are bad. Yet, some members feel obligated to insult me because I suggest alternate circuits.
If you think gold foil capacitors with a linen dielectric made from mummy wrappings sounds better than anything else, fine. But don't attack me because I don't. This has become, sadly, a hobby about spending money, and following the latest dogma.
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