looking for a non-copyrighted preamp schematic

dmitriy167 · 15th January 2006, 03:03 PM

Hello,

I'm considering starting an eBay business with my father. I have the idea of building tube preamps and amplifiers (about 10 or so each month, depending on available time) and making a profit. It seems to me that the best tube circuitry has already been developed, and I don't want to go through the trouble of reinventing the wheel.

However, I do respect intellectual property and will not use proprietary circuitry.

I need an old or non-copyrighted preamp circuit which will serve as a test unit/prototype from which I can then build production units.

The idea behind this is that we have contacts in Ukraine that can supply us with surplus tubes and possibly transformers at a very low price. For instance, we can get NOS mil-spec small-signal tubes at about $2 each. No joke. If we sell these preamps at a moderate but competitive price, we can make a fairly good profit. There will be losses at first while we buy all the tools/equipment necessary, but we should eventually make money.

Thanks.

Giaime · 15th January 2006, 03:30 PM

I'm usually a little bit against who's trying to make money with my loved tubes

But I think that if you want to have succes with your project, you have to sell something unique in design, something new. Too much old/copied stuff in the market, how would you compete with Chinese brands that are offering the same thing as yours but at half the price?

If you want to sell amps, you must be able to design them. That's my thought. Too many self-trained amp tweekers out there, so few real engineers.

Go buy TubeCAD and design a preamp and an amp.

Zen Mod · 15th January 2006, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by dmitriy167
Hello,

I'm considering starting an eBay business with my father. I have the idea of building tube preamps and amplifiers (about 10 or so each month, depending on available time) and making a profit. It seems to me that the best tube circuitry has already been developed, and I don't want to go through the trouble of reinventing the wheel.

However, I do respect intellectual property and will not use proprietary circuitry.

I need an old or non-copyrighted preamp circuit which will serve as a test unit/prototype from which I can then build production units.

The idea behind this is that we have contacts in Ukraine that can supply us with surplus tubes and possibly transformers at a very low price. For instance, we can get NOS mil-spec small-signal tubes at about $2 each. No joke. If we sell these preamps at a moderate but competitive price, we can make a fairly good profit. There will be losses at first while we buy all the tools/equipment necessary, but we should eventually make money.

Thanks.

contact me off board and I'll design one for you-for free.
I just need some more info regarding that what tube types are available for you

lineup · 15th January 2006, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by dmitriy167
The idea behind this is that we have contacts in Ukraine
that can supply us with surplus tubes
and possibly transformers at a very low price.

I think a good way to make this is
- first see what tubes you can get
- take some help to make amplifier circuits for those specific tubes
- wait with marketing until each circuit is tested by several people with good knowledge
- try to setup an internet group for testing and development

You can start with tube pre amplifiers and
later on complement with tube power amps.

There are some interesting ideas in the archives of Tube CAD Journal.
Some of those circuits could be a starting point.
You can also try GlassWare tube design programs.

Tube CAD Journal archives at GlassWare
TubeCAD.com

You will also find a lot of good links at Triode Guild.

Triode Guild

dmitriy167 · 15th January 2006, 04:17 PM

Giaime,

After 100 years of the tube's existence, it's a little hard to believe that tube audio has not been completely thought through. I do not plan to build exact clones of old designs, but instead use them for reference and modify them accordingly. My father and my grandfather are not self-proclaimed experts but actual engineers who know what they are talking about, and even they are reluctant to start from scratch.

As for the Chinese brands, they will always have a major disadvantage compared to small US and Europe-based companies. Their focus is not on product quality, but on maximizing profits with high production volumes and inadequate components. You see plenty of them on Ebay; they always put their amps in pretty chassis to make them look expensive, but the circuits are built poorly and do not last.

Also, I can hardly imagine one of their amplifiers in my room because they try too hard to make them look good and the amps actually end up being ugly.

If go for more of a sensible sales pitch and move away from the audio hype that is now so common, I believe that I should get a following of my own.

dmitriy167 · 15th January 2006, 04:35 PM

Mods, sorry for the double post.

Lineup, those links are excellent and are indeed a great starting point. They were exactly what I had in mind, since I was thinking of a common cathode or a cathode follower.

Thanks.

poobah · 15th January 2006, 05:51 PM

dmitriy167,

I think you need to somehow make your product different. And one thing that I don't see in any of the products is a "NO-NONSENSE" approach.

Some examples:

1. Why do we have blazing hot tubes out in the open where people can get burned or the tubes get broken? How about a cage?

2. Why is it cool to to not label the knobs and controls?

3. What is cool about dual volume controls and HUGE silly knobs?

4. What ever happened to tone controls and loudness compensation?

5. How about use normal stuff and BRAG about it... NO silver wire, NO audiofool caps, NEW tubes that can be easily and cheaply replaced, NO costly and laborious point to point wiring. (BTW if you need pcb's designed lemme knoiw).

6. Oh... and how about REAL PUBLISHED specifications... just numbers... NO adjectives.

I'll bet there are alot of people that would buy tube gear if it weren't so artsy, ridiculous, and built from expensive stuff so that it is impossible to afford...

Just a thought...

Nigel Goodwin · 15th January 2006, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by poobah
dmitriy167,

I think you need to somehow make your product different. And one thing that I don't see in any of the products is a "NO-NONSENSE" approach.

Some examples:

1. Why do we have blazing hot tubes out in the open where people can get burned or the tubes get broken? How about a cage?

Because the people who buy them like to let others know about it!.

Quote:

2. Why is it cool to to not label the knobs and controls?

So few knobs it's not hard to remember what they are

Quote:

3. What is cool about dual volume controls and HUGE silly knobs?

Presumably to try and look 'different'. True enough that dual controls (particularly log ones) don't track well - but probably better than you can set two individual ones by ear?.

Quote:

4. What ever happened to tone controls and loudness compensation?

Should be switched out anyway?.

Quote:

5. How about use normal stuff and BRAG about it... NO silver wire, NO audiofool caps, NEW tubes that can be easily and cheaply replaced, NO costly and laborious point to point wiring. (BTW if you need pcb's designed lemme knoiw).

You'll never get a job in marketing!.

Quote:

6. Oh... and how about REAL PUBLISHED specifications... just numbers... NO adjectives.

They can't publish specs! - the specs are going to be pretty poor, it's not about specs, it's about expensive pretty devices that light up

poobah · 15th January 2006, 06:39 PM

Nigel,

THAT IS WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT!!!!

Success in small business means differentiating your product and avoiding the saturated parts of a market. No one is taking this "angle" in tubes.

Mr. Pass has an angle similar to this... ZEN... akin to NO-NONSENSE... only he could truely testify to the success of it all I suppose.

But, I'm afraid you missed my suggestion entirely.

And, I've never needed a job in marketing... honesty and quality work have served me well enough.

Zen Mod · 15th January 2006, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by poobah
Nigel,

THAT IS WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT!!!!

Success in small business means differentiating your product and avoiding the saturated parts of a market. No one is taking this "angle" in tubes.

Mr. Pass has an angle similar to this... ZEN... akin to NO-NONSENSE... only he could truely testify to the success of it all I suppose.

But, I'm afraid you missed my suggestion entirely.

zen?
that line of bad and ugly amplifiers?

15th January 2006, 03:03 PM	#1
dmitriy167 diyAudio Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: NJ, USA	looking for a non-copyrighted preamp schematic Hello, I'm considering starting an eBay business with my father. I have the idea of building tube preamps and amplifiers (about 10 or so each month, depending on available time) and making a profit. It seems to me that the best tube circuitry has already been developed, and I don't want to go through the trouble of reinventing the wheel. However, I do respect intellectual property and will not use proprietary circuitry. I need an old or non-copyrighted preamp circuit which will serve as a test unit/prototype from which I can then build production units. The idea behind this is that we have contacts in Ukraine that can supply us with surplus tubes and possibly transformers at a very low price. For instance, we can get NOS mil-spec small-signal tubes at about $2 each. No joke. If we sell these preamps at a moderate but competitive price, we can make a fairly good profit. There will be losses at first while we buy all the tools/equipment necessary, but we should eventually make money. Thanks.

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15th January 2006, 03:30 PM	#2
Giaime diyAudio Member Join Date: Oct 2004	I'm usually a little bit against who's trying to make money with my loved tubes But I think that if you want to have succes with your project, you have to sell something unique in design, something new. Too much old/copied stuff in the market, how would you compete with Chinese brands that are offering the same thing as yours but at half the price? If you want to sell amps, you must be able to design them. That's my thought. Too many self-trained amp tweekers out there, so few real engineers. Go buy TubeCAD and design a preamp and an amp.

15th January 2006, 04:17 PM	#5
dmitriy167 diyAudio Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: NJ, USA	Giaime, After 100 years of the tube's existence, it's a little hard to believe that tube audio has not been completely thought through. I do not plan to build exact clones of old designs, but instead use them for reference and modify them accordingly. My father and my grandfather are not self-proclaimed experts but actual engineers who know what they are talking about, and even they are reluctant to start from scratch. As for the Chinese brands, they will always have a major disadvantage compared to small US and Europe-based companies. Their focus is not on product quality, but on maximizing profits with high production volumes and inadequate components. You see plenty of them on Ebay; they always put their amps in pretty chassis to make them look expensive, but the circuits are built poorly and do not last. Also, I can hardly imagine one of their amplifiers in my room because they try too hard to make them look good and the amps actually end up being ugly. If go for more of a sensible sales pitch and move away from the audio hype that is now so common, I believe that I should get a following of my own.

15th January 2006, 04:35 PM	#6
dmitriy167 diyAudio Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: NJ, USA	Mods, sorry for the double post. Lineup, those links are excellent and are indeed a great starting point. They were exactly what I had in mind, since I was thinking of a common cathode or a cathode follower. Thanks.

15th January 2006, 05:51 PM	#7
poobah diyAudio Member Join Date: Nov 2005	dmitriy167, I think you need to somehow make your product different. And one thing that I don't see in any of the products is a "NO-NONSENSE" approach. Some examples: 1. Why do we have blazing hot tubes out in the open where people can get burned or the tubes get broken? How about a cage? 2. Why is it cool to to not label the knobs and controls? 3. What is cool about dual volume controls and HUGE silly knobs? 4. What ever happened to tone controls and loudness compensation? 5. How about use normal stuff and BRAG about it... NO silver wire, NO audiofool caps, NEW tubes that can be easily and cheaply replaced, NO costly and laborious point to point wiring. (BTW if you need pcb's designed lemme knoiw). 6. Oh... and how about REAL PUBLISHED specifications... just numbers... NO adjectives. I'll bet there are alot of people that would buy tube gear if it weren't so artsy, ridiculous, and built from expensive stuff so that it is impossible to afford... Just a thought...

15th January 2006, 06:39 PM	#9
poobah diyAudio Member Join Date: Nov 2005	Nigel, THAT IS WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT!!!! Success in small business means differentiating your product and avoiding the saturated parts of a market. No one is taking this "angle" in tubes. Mr. Pass has an angle similar to this... ZEN... akin to NO-NONSENSE... only he could truely testify to the success of it all I suppose. But, I'm afraid you missed my suggestion entirely. And, I've never needed a job in marketing... honesty and quality work have served me well enough.

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