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Old 20th January 2006, 05:23 AM   #21
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Sir Serengetiplains,

I have nothing against SMPS. Understand the rationale - efficiency, area and weight (the transformer is smaller). However, unless its designed by reputable SMPS designers I wouldn't be going that route just yet. I don't expect an audio electronics company to be good at designing SMPS also. Very different field.

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Old 20th January 2006, 07:35 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by rascal101
The noise from an SMPS is just too high to be acceptable for audio. Ripple & Noise, conducted and radiated emi, switching noise etc.


Come on.......that statement requires modification...In defence... I use and design switchmode technology in audio... ....Ripple and noise aren't issues anymore with good components and designs. Some switching mode topologies have noisy reputations but it is simple to choose another. It may more costly to produce.
I use a 75Khz 1 kW boostmode power factor corrector as the 530V B+ supply in my tube power amps, also a push-pull low voltage converter ....both are far quieter in terms of emitted pollution than the poorly screened flyback psu used in most satellite down receivers and other consumer products from the far east.
Commercially made units may just scrape through compliance to EMI standards but since much of todays music goes through circuits using similiar technology, i.e digital processing and oversampling algorithms....one can't avoid switchmode anymore.

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Old 20th January 2006, 07:55 PM   #23
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Check this switcher out: LT1683 -- Jim Williams at Linear has also written several good apnotes AN70 stands out -- on converters and noise control.

btw, Linn uses a switcher in one of their amplifiers.
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Old 23rd January 2006, 01:09 AM   #24
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Quote:
Come on.......that statement requires modification...In defence... I use and design switchmode technology in audio... ....Ripple and noise aren't issues anymore with good components and designs. Some switching mode topologies have noisy reputations but it is simple to choose another. It may more costly to produce.
I said that SMPS do not have a home at high end audio because I don't believe a good number of people who design audio amps are also good at SMPS. Insofar as SMPS companies, there are hundreds all over the world. But it doesn't mean these companies produce a good design. I come from an SMPS company and I do see the designs. While I have not designed a full power supply yet (just pieces eg PFC, inrush ckt etc), I noticed that even seasoned design engineers are not completely familiar with all parts of the power supply. We have a consultants for magnetics, DC-DC, PFC, EMI etc. Depends on the output power - higher output = more consultants. Typically we have 1 in a typical project depending on the need.

Speaking of SMPS in audio application, yes its true we're seeing more and more and it will just be a matter of time. However, I don't believe it is this time just yet.
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Old 23rd January 2006, 05:54 AM   #25
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ok rascal....too true....to design a smps with all protective features takes alot of practical and theorical experience in physics and magnetics and most of todays engineers lack both in depth and magnetics (sadly) is still a black art subject. I'm from the old school of thought when a university degree was worth something, not like the ones obtainable now.

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Old 23rd January 2006, 06:44 AM   #26
AJT is offline AJT  Philippines
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sometime in the 80's SONY came out with an smps psu type power supply. can seem to recall the model number now, but it was done before, no reason not to be able to do it today.

there is even a mosfet power amp being sold as kit whith a full bridge smps psu.
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Old 23rd January 2006, 09:31 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tony
sometime in the 80's SONY came out with an smps psu type power supply. can seem to recall the model number now, but it was done before, no reason not to be able to do it today.

there is even a mosfet power amp being sold as kit whith a full bridge smps psu.

The SONY TA-N86 and TA-N88 both had smps's. The TA-N88 was itself a switch-mode amp (class D avant la lettre!).

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Old 23rd January 2006, 11:41 AM   #28
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Jan, there was a number of them both before and after, in their high-end lineup as well as the regular consumer stuff. I've seen and heared a number of them, and in fact own a TA-N88B. The switchmode power supply used in them is not as advanced as todays designs (and all discrete), but it does the job very well. It is an extensively shileded (has it's own sealed box) two step design, with a buck regulator in front of a self-oscillating push-pull cpnverter. I did however notice the propensity to produce acustical noise rather than electrical, a faint hiss perceptible only in very quiet conditions (like in the middle of the night). There were some issues with reliability, though - due to much worse filter cap technology, compared to what is obtainable today - anyone who ever designed a SMPS already knows what I'm talking about.
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Old 23rd January 2006, 12:28 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by ilimzn
Jan, there was a number of them both before and after, in their high-end lineup as well as the regular consumer stuff. I've seen and heared a number of them, and in fact own a TA-N88B. The switchmode power supply used in them is not as advanced as todays designs (and all discrete), but it does the job very well. It is an extensively shileded (has it's own sealed box) two step design, with a buck regulator in front of a self-oscillating push-pull cpnverter. I did however notice the propensity to produce acustical noise rather than electrical, a faint hiss perceptible only in very quiet conditions (like in the middle of the night). There were some issues with reliability, though - due to much worse filter cap technology, compared to what is obtainable today - anyone who ever designed a SMPS already knows what I'm talking about.

Yes indeed, my experiences with the -88 are similar to yours. In fact, I got two, both broken (the smps part). One I was able to repair and is functional, the other one is still waiting for me to find a quiet day to trouble shoot. Probably Wednesday morning 2007...
The case is a study in RF and EMI engineering and I find the same metal "finger" seals I saw when working on Air defense radars many moons ago.

Jan Didden
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Old 23rd January 2006, 01:00 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by janneman

The case is a study in RF and EMI engineering and I find the same metal "finger" seals I saw when working on Air defense radars many moons ago.
Jan Didden

fwiw == you can purchase the finger stock at Surplus Sales of Nebraska: http://www.surplussales.com/ (they also have a huge assortment of polystyrene caps).
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