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Old 22nd November 2005, 05:46 PM   #11
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A 20 Mhz analog scope is more than adequate for audio.( maybe not the digital part ) I bought a B&K 2120 for $40 that arived in the original box and looked brand new with all manuals. The only problem is I had to by $50 worth of probes. Resolution is fine. If the sig looks fuzzy, turn up the sweep speed and you'll see oscilation. (like my POS Denon preamp)

Then I bought a audio sig generator for $25.

The Tek scope is considered a better unit, but I have no complaints about my B&K. They are both entry level and not as impressively built as an older Tek 465 or 475, but they cost as much as a Mercedes when they were new.
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Old 22nd November 2005, 09:34 PM   #12
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Default DSO Caution

Unless you are an experienced DIY'er or Tech and really understand how to use a DSO (Digital Signal Oscilloscope) you can seriously go wrong with a DSO. You can easily miss stuff that is obvious on an analog scope. You can also easily leave it in a special mode which you only realise 2 days later and have to redo a great heap of tests.

Of-course you can go wrong with analog scopes too - I had to redo a frequency response run just last night because I had'nt set the probe compensation - it was'nt till I switched the sig gen to square wave and went "Hmm.. that can't be right" that the penny dropped.

The real "beauty" of DSO's of course is that they have all those fancy features for phase measurements, FFTs etc and some of them come with a built in printer which is great for sticking screen plots into your design project exersize book. Their price is generally attractive too.

For the "single instrument" family I guess the DSO is the go BUT do spend time learning its ways and get into the habit of checking all its settings before taking critical measurements.

I run a "cheapy" 20MHz analog scope in the home workshop and when needed borrow one of the YOKOGOWA DSO's with built in printer from work.

Cheers,
Ian
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Old 22nd November 2005, 09:47 PM   #13
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I may not be an expert, but I would recommend a cheap analog first. Ther's lots of things you can do with one, and the sreen can show you things that the PC based AD converters may miss. And I would say the used Ebay cheapy analog is cheaper than a new DSO, and I wouldn't buy something like that used. There may be compatability and software issues that you can't overcome.


Not that a DSO wouldn't be nice to have as well...Get both!
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Old 23rd November 2005, 08:49 AM   #14
moamps is offline moamps  Croatia
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Default Re: DSO Caution

Quote:
Originally posted by gingertube
Unless you are an experienced DIY'er or Tech and really understand how to use a DSO (Digital Signal Oscilloscope) you can seriously go wrong with a DSO. ...
DSO = digital storage oscilloscope
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Old 23rd November 2005, 09:21 AM   #15
dhaen is offline dhaen  Europe
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Just wondering why this thread is in the Tubes forum..
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Old 23rd November 2005, 11:16 AM   #16
Bryan is offline Bryan  United States
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dhean,

Well, when I started the thread I figured that most DIY tube guys would have plenty of information pertaining to scopes that are comonly used for DIY (tube) audio, and possibly also have experience with the newer DSO's. If you feel it would be better placed in an alternate forum, please feel free to change the location.

Sorry,

Bryan
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Old 23rd November 2005, 11:30 AM   #17
dhaen is offline dhaen  Europe
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Hi Bryan,

No critisism intended. I just wonderd if the discussion would attact a wider participation if it was in Everything Else. The subject is certainly pertinent to the SS people who sometimes don't see the Tubes Forum at all.
Perhaps we need a "Test Equipment and Tools" forum eventually.

BTW I know I owe you an email
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Old 23rd November 2005, 05:49 PM   #18
Bryan is offline Bryan  United States
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No criticism perceived

I DO love e-mails.....

BK
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Old 24th November 2005, 11:52 AM   #19
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Since we're talking scopes, maybe you guys could give me an opinion - I have never used a scope so far but am just clearing space to install some gear. I have a 20mhz Philips PM3214 - needs recalibration and a couple of sticky pots. Should I have this serviced or look on ebay for a Tek 465B? I missed one last night - went for £102 and it was fully working. A service would cost me at least half that. What do you suggest - get a service or watch ebay? Andy
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Old 24th November 2005, 12:59 PM   #20
anatech is offline anatech  Canada
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Hi andyjevans,
My humble opinion. Clean the controls and use the scope as it is.

Most 'scopes are not terribly accurate unless you are talking a DSO. What you should do is get use to using a 'scope and figure out where the short comings are. Find out what parameters are most important to you.

To all, when working on tube circuits with a newer 'scope in particular, always decrease the vertical sensivity before moving the test probe. The newer 'scopes can be damaged very easily at the higher tube voltages. This is very true when something is oscillating.

For most audio work, the new 'scopes with a 0.5uS / div range will do almost anything you need (20 MHz). You can set up a CD player with these, the eye apttern is perfectly visible. To catch the odd oscillation you may need a 100MHz or better 'scope.

-Chris
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