I am going to build 2 of these monoblocks and would like to know if anyone else has tried it.Or if you guys have any comments on the circuit. Be nice now......
http://216.87.144.102/svetlana/TechBulletins/technoteNo50.asp
http://216.87.144.102/svetlana/TechBulletins/technoteNo50.asp
"I wonder how it would stack-up against Dogzilla?"
I don't think you can compare. Dogzilla was designed to be a guitar amp, and the Svetlana Six Pack wasn't. Still, why parallel up all those tubes instead of getting a pair of xmtr finals that could do the same job with a single pair? There are plenty of options for that.
Given that, who really needs that much power for home use. I have a project in the works that'll give 26WPC, and I don't believe I'll be going any higher. I'm not looking to fill a stadium with sound here.
I don't think you can compare. Dogzilla was designed to be a guitar amp, and the Svetlana Six Pack wasn't. Still, why parallel up all those tubes instead of getting a pair of xmtr finals that could do the same job with a single pair? There are plenty of options for that.
Given that, who really needs that much power for home use. I have a project in the works that'll give 26WPC, and I don't believe I'll be going any higher. I'm not looking to fill a stadium with sound here.
I already have everything except the power transformers ,a few caps and the 6550's. I know most say it's a waste of money to build but i have bought some decent components for it. Riken and roederstein resistors . Jensen CFPO ,wima and Solen caps.Silver hookup wire ,cardas connectors.
One question i have, is it better to use the 9 1000uf 200v smaller caps in the PSU or 6 1500uf 450v caps. The 1500's are 3"diam x 5" tall and the 1000's are 1.5"diam x 1.25" tall.
For home theater i'm building 5-Aleph 2 clones.
Thanks
Glen
One question i have, is it better to use the 9 1000uf 200v smaller caps in the PSU or 6 1500uf 450v caps. The 1500's are 3"diam x 5" tall and the 1000's are 1.5"diam x 1.25" tall.
For home theater i'm building 5-Aleph 2 clones.
Thanks
Glen
Building an amp is expensive. Choosing a design is difficult as the end result can be an expensive mistake. I heard many so-so sounding tube amps and a few great amps. Once one hears a great amp, an average amp is basically unlistenable for any period of time.
Triode connected power tetrodes tubes sounds better than any pentode or tetrode per my experience. The best sounding true triode in my limited experience is the 45 tube. I prefer push-pull, but that slight almost chorus type sonics in the midrange of a SET has many followers. It boils down to what one is used to listening to that will form so many opinions on audio gear.
I find push-pull more dynamic & simply used to push-pull amp sonics. The best push-pull amp I used is either the PP 45 or PP 6V6GT triode connected. Both amps used same parts, simular audio transformers & power supply design. Both amps used higher quality parts.
To achieve the best sonics, the type of preamp & phase splitter tube will make or break an amp no matter how expensive the parts or using best quality power tubes. Even the rectifier tube has an impact on the sound.
Not being negative here. As for explaining my findings, 99% of readers will dismiss what I or others state anyways. So, put your question on top of my findings and you have basically little insight. I usually do not believe much of what I read & at times find someones opinion was right.
Triode connected power tetrodes tubes sounds better than any pentode or tetrode per my experience. The best sounding true triode in my limited experience is the 45 tube. I prefer push-pull, but that slight almost chorus type sonics in the midrange of a SET has many followers. It boils down to what one is used to listening to that will form so many opinions on audio gear.
I find push-pull more dynamic & simply used to push-pull amp sonics. The best push-pull amp I used is either the PP 45 or PP 6V6GT triode connected. Both amps used same parts, simular audio transformers & power supply design. Both amps used higher quality parts.
To achieve the best sonics, the type of preamp & phase splitter tube will make or break an amp no matter how expensive the parts or using best quality power tubes. Even the rectifier tube has an impact on the sound.
Not being negative here. As for explaining my findings, 99% of readers will dismiss what I or others state anyways. So, put your question on top of my findings and you have basically little insight. I usually do not believe much of what I read & at times find someones opinion was right.
"Building an amp is expensive."
Tell me about it.
"Choosing a design is difficult as the end result can be an expensive mistake."
I certainly hope that is not the case with my project: I'd be pist aplenty. Still, I did my research and believe I've picked one fine final (807, class AB(1) ). From everything I could gather, 807s will work for what I listen to most of the time (Metal, Techno, other hard rock). Hopefully, others will agree.
Still, how bad could it possibly sound? I've been doing amps since the ninth grade, including one VT design that was all "wrong", according to the popular wisdom, and even that one sounded really good. Of course, I ripped out its guts for parts for the new amp.
"The best push-pull amp I used is either the PP 45 or PP 6V6GT triode connected."
Been hearing quite a bit from a wide variety of sources about 6V6s. That's definitely going to be my next project.
Tell me about it.
"Choosing a design is difficult as the end result can be an expensive mistake."
I certainly hope that is not the case with my project: I'd be pist aplenty. Still, I did my research and believe I've picked one fine final (807, class AB(1) ). From everything I could gather, 807s will work for what I listen to most of the time (Metal, Techno, other hard rock). Hopefully, others will agree.
Still, how bad could it possibly sound? I've been doing amps since the ninth grade, including one VT design that was all "wrong", according to the popular wisdom, and even that one sounded really good. Of course, I ripped out its guts for parts for the new amp.
"The best push-pull amp I used is either the PP 45 or PP 6V6GT triode connected."
Been hearing quite a bit from a wide variety of sources about 6V6s. That's definitely going to be my next project.
The 807 is basically a 6L6 in a large bottle with a plate cap. Compare the guts of an 807 with an old RCA 6L6GB. The 807, by virtue of the plate cap can handle more plate voltage. The same tube with an octal base is the 6BG6. Therefore you can expect a sound similar to the 6L6. This tube definitely ROCKS and would do well in that application. The 6V6 has a definitely different sound, although I haven't tried them lately. The 45 is in a class all its own, and although I haven't tried them in P-P, they have the best detail of any tube that I have tried in SE.
I must assume that you have efficient speakers, since you believe that you will be happy playing Rock, and Metal with 26 watts. I have caught the SE virus, and have relatively innefficient speakers (86db). I too like rock and metal, and the unfortunate fact is that the 45 SE is the best sounding amp that I have ever made, but it doesn't do Jimi (or Metallica) justice, so I built a bigger one (300B) and a bigger one (845) and now am planning a bigger one. The next project will be an 833SE with about 100 watts per channel.
After I satisfy my SE power quest, I will get back to P-P amps, and I have a box full of 1625's which are 807's with 12 volt filaments, so I will try them out. Let us know how well the 807's rock.
I must assume that you have efficient speakers, since you believe that you will be happy playing Rock, and Metal with 26 watts. I have caught the SE virus, and have relatively innefficient speakers (86db). I too like rock and metal, and the unfortunate fact is that the 45 SE is the best sounding amp that I have ever made, but it doesn't do Jimi (or Metallica) justice, so I built a bigger one (300B) and a bigger one (845) and now am planning a bigger one. The next project will be an 833SE with about 100 watts per channel.
After I satisfy my SE power quest, I will get back to P-P amps, and I have a box full of 1625's which are 807's with 12 volt filaments, so I will try them out. Let us know how well the 807's rock.
It can definatly be an expensive venture but the way i look at it is if i don't like it ,i'll try tweeking it. If i can't get the sound i want i'll strip the parts out and try something else. I like everythng from metal to classical and i like it very loud most of the time. My closest neighbors are a 1/4 mile away when their china shakes the volume is just right. Right now i have 2 sets of ESS amt 1-b's and i'm going to flip one set over and mount them above the other set.Might ruin their great imaging so i'm not sure how long that will last.Their not efficient speakers but they sound great to me when i'm in the sweet spot. Some might say i'm an idiot but i don't care. I was in the car audio buisness for 12 years and was called one many times. I just smile and wave. To me there is nothing like listening to Tchaikovsky's Nutcracker suite or Bizet"s Carmin suite or Floyds Wish you Were there at 120+db.
Glen
Glen
Glen,
RE your question about the filter capacitors.
9 x 1000uF as shown results in 3 series lots of 1000 x 3 = 3000uF giving 1000uF total effective capacitance, there is 200V across each cap and so for decent life time those caps need to be 200/0.75 = 267 volt rated or better. This also gives some protection against higher voltage until O/P tubes start conducting. 1000uF in 385 or 400 volt are readily available as they are often used in the front end of switchmode power supplies.
IF you want to use the 1500uF/450V then you can get away with just 4 of them. (Note you can also get away with just 4 1000uF/450V)
2 x 1500uF in parallel gives 3000uF, use 2 parallel pairs in series to give 1500uF. Each cap then has 600/2 across it or 300V. For long life they would need to be 300/0.75 = 400V rated. The 450V rated jobs would be just fine.
Also adjust the bleed resistors across the caps. If you want to work out what these bleed/balance resistors should be from theory - look at the capacitor data sheet to work out what the leakage current will be. This is often quoted something like 0.003CV+10uA. For each parallel pair this would give 3000uF x 300V x 0.003 + 10uA which in this instance would give 2.7mA. You then want a MINIMUM of 3 times this "leakage" current down the bleeder/balance resistors - say 8.1mA. Thus each of the parallel pairs needs 300/0.0081 = 37KOhms - just use the 33K as per original value. Power Dissipated = 300x300/33K = 2.7Watts - use 10W wire wounds
Cheers,
Ian
RE your question about the filter capacitors.
9 x 1000uF as shown results in 3 series lots of 1000 x 3 = 3000uF giving 1000uF total effective capacitance, there is 200V across each cap and so for decent life time those caps need to be 200/0.75 = 267 volt rated or better. This also gives some protection against higher voltage until O/P tubes start conducting. 1000uF in 385 or 400 volt are readily available as they are often used in the front end of switchmode power supplies.
IF you want to use the 1500uF/450V then you can get away with just 4 of them. (Note you can also get away with just 4 1000uF/450V)
2 x 1500uF in parallel gives 3000uF, use 2 parallel pairs in series to give 1500uF. Each cap then has 600/2 across it or 300V. For long life they would need to be 300/0.75 = 400V rated. The 450V rated jobs would be just fine.
Also adjust the bleed resistors across the caps. If you want to work out what these bleed/balance resistors should be from theory - look at the capacitor data sheet to work out what the leakage current will be. This is often quoted something like 0.003CV+10uA. For each parallel pair this would give 3000uF x 300V x 0.003 + 10uA which in this instance would give 2.7mA. You then want a MINIMUM of 3 times this "leakage" current down the bleeder/balance resistors - say 8.1mA. Thus each of the parallel pairs needs 300/0.0081 = 37KOhms - just use the 33K as per original value. Power Dissipated = 300x300/33K = 2.7Watts - use 10W wire wounds
Cheers,
Ian
"I must assume that you have efficient speakers, since you believe that you will be happy playing Rock, and Metal with 26 watts."
Not sure what the specs are, however, there are also the neighbours to consider. Living in a condo, I don't believe that much more power would be appreciated.
If it turns out that 26WPC isn't enough, then, there's always the 814: like an 807, but can do twice the power.
"The 807, by virtue of the plate cap can handle more plate voltage. The same tube with an octal base is the 6BG6."
Now, that's interesting. The VT amp I did back in HS used 6BG6's (just because I salvaged a couple from old TV sets). Even though it was built all "wrong", and I really didn't know what I was doing, it still managed to sound pretty good.
"Let us know how well the 807's rock."
Right now, I've got the main chassis cut, drilled, and holes punched. Just painted it this morning, so in a day or two, I can begin wiring it up. (Ivory with contrasting glossy black cabinet: ought to look pretty bad @55. ) Depending on how well it goes, it should be ready for prime time by the end of the month. Or longer, depending on how much optimization each stage requires. No telling what'll happen since electronic design is as much art as science.
Not sure what the specs are, however, there are also the neighbours to consider. Living in a condo, I don't believe that much more power would be appreciated.
If it turns out that 26WPC isn't enough, then, there's always the 814: like an 807, but can do twice the power."The 807, by virtue of the plate cap can handle more plate voltage. The same tube with an octal base is the 6BG6."
Now, that's interesting. The VT amp I did back in HS used 6BG6's (just because I salvaged a couple from old TV sets). Even though it was built all "wrong", and I really didn't know what I was doing, it still managed to sound pretty good. "Let us know how well the 807's rock."
Right now, I've got the main chassis cut, drilled, and holes punched. Just painted it this morning, so in a day or two, I can begin wiring it up. (Ivory with contrasting glossy black cabinet: ought to look pretty bad @55.
) Depending on how well it goes, it should be ready for prime time by the end of the month. Or longer, depending on how much optimization each stage requires. No telling what'll happen since electronic design is as much art as science.
I had to look up the 814, since I had never seen them. It looks similar to the 828, which I have a few of. Maybee Ill try them. I guess that I am in a neighborhood where lots of noise is tolerated by most residents. The 200Watt guitar amp test got one phone call, that was from the pirate radio guy, wanting to know "what makes that sound".
Somewhere on my list of things to blow up is an outrageous P-P amplifier. I was experimenting with the 6LW6 aTV tube. I was getting 140 watts out of two of these. I put that aside when I caught the SE virus.
Somewhere on my list of things to blow up is an outrageous P-P amplifier. I was experimenting with the 6LW6 aTV tube. I was getting 140 watts out of two of these. I put that aside when I caught the SE virus.
Thanks Gingertube. I am supprised the schematic calls for 200v caps for 9x1000uf since 200v is pushing it .And also asking for 2watt bleeders. So if i'm understanding this right, if i use 6 1500uf caps (3 parallel pairs in series) I'd be back at 1000uf with the voltage drop back at 200v right?
I looked up the caps and they are .006CV . So 3000x200x.006=3.6mA x3=10.8mA , 200/.0108=18.5k , 200x200/18.5k=2.2w . Can i use 5 watters or do i still need 10watters with 6 1500uf caps?
Thank for your help. See anything else i should be concerned about with the schematics?
Glen
I looked up the caps and they are .006CV . So 3000x200x.006=3.6mA x3=10.8mA , 200/.0108=18.5k , 200x200/18.5k=2.2w . Can i use 5 watters or do i still need 10watters with 6 1500uf caps?
Thank for your help. See anything else i should be concerned about with the schematics?
Glen
"Somewhere on my list of things to blow up is an outrageous P-P amplifier. I was experimenting with the 6LW6 aTV tube. I was getting 140 watts out of two of these. I put that aside when I caught the SE virus."
And wouldntchaknowit, the 6LW6 is one tube that Frank's doesn't have. Is that a color TV duodecar like the 6KD6? Got any data on it? Did you bust the specs to get that 140W?
"I guess that I am in a neighborhood where lots of noise is tolerated by most residents. The 200Watt guitar amp test got one phone call, that was from the pirate radio guy, wanting to know "what makes that sound"."
Lucky you!
And wouldntchaknowit, the 6LW6 is one tube that Frank's doesn't have. Is that a color TV duodecar like the 6KD6? Got any data on it? Did you bust the specs to get that 140W?
"I guess that I am in a neighborhood where lots of noise is tolerated by most residents. The 200Watt guitar amp test got one phone call, that was from the pirate radio guy, wanting to know "what makes that sound"."
Lucky you!
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