Very high output level!

Matthewong · 14th June 2005, 04:28 PM

I've a problem regarding to my new pre-amp. My pre-amp is using 2 6072 EH tubes and the problem is how can I lower the output level? The output sound is very high, I just can only turn the volume control to around 8 o'clock and the output sound is already very high. I hope that you guys and help ,e to solve this problem. Thanks

SY · 14th June 2005, 04:30 PM

A few details might help. Schematic, for a start.

ray_moth · 15th June 2005, 06:10 AM

A question to ask is, for what main amp sensitivity was your preamp intended? Is it compatible with your amp? If, for example, you have a Leak or Mullard-designed main amp, then the chances are that the output signal of most preamps would be much too high.

Matthewong · 15th June 2005, 03:02 PM

Below is the schematic. I've using a lot of power amp, from AMC to Audioloab to audio research, all the same, very high output level. I hope that you can help me to solve this problem. Thanks

Matthewong · 15th June 2005, 04:12 PM

Schematic

SY · 15th June 2005, 05:21 PM

There's an inverting gain stage as a line amp. I can't read the numbers on the schematic too well, but it looks like you've got a cathode resistance of roughly 1K. 125K on the plate. With a plate resistance of 25K and a mu of 44, the effective plate resistance is about 70K. So the gain will be something like 27-30. That's about 29dB, a lot of gain.

You can go two routes: easy and non-optimal, or hard but optimal. The former way, just pad down the input. The latter, redesign the stage for much less gain, a non-trivial project.

Frank Berry · 16th June 2005, 08:19 AM

You can always connect the grid of the cathode follower output stage directly to the volume control and eliminate the gain stage.

SY · 16th June 2005, 11:39 AM

Nope, it's not that simple. If you do that, the DC conditions for the CF will be unsatisfactory. Conceptually, it's a fine idea, but implementing it will involve putting a DC bias string and a coupling cap at the input of the CF. That's not horribly difficult, but it will take some design effort to do it right.

Frank Berry · 16th June 2005, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by SY
Nope, it's not that simple. If you do that, the DC conditions for the CF will be unsatisfactory. Conceptually, it's a fine idea, but implementing it will involve putting a DC bias string and a coupling cap at the input of the CF. That's not horribly difficult, but it will take some design effort to do it right.

Why not just change the value of the cathode resistor?
No cap needed on the grid.

SY · 16th June 2005, 12:02 PM

That's exactly the sort of thing that has given cathode followers a bad reputation. Drop that resistor and the distortion goes sky high. The drive capability goes away, too.

To do a proper cathode follower, you need some room under that cathode. Big resistor with a lot of drop or a current source with sufficient compliance. That means cap coupling and biasing up the grid or putting in a negative rail and running a resistor or current source to it.

Nontrivial.

14th June 2005, 04:28 PM	#1
Matthewong diyAudio Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: KL	Very high output level! I've a problem regarding to my new pre-amp. My pre-amp is using 2 6072 EH tubes and the problem is how can I lower the output level? The output sound is very high, I just can only turn the volume control to around 8 o'clock and the output sound is already very high. I hope that you guys and help ,e to solve this problem. Thanks

14th June 2005, 04:30 PM	#2
SY diyAudio Moderator Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Chicagoland Blog Entries: 1	A few details might help. Schematic, for a start. __________________ If there's a sucker born every minute, where do the rest of them come from?

15th June 2005, 05:21 PM	#6
SY diyAudio Moderator Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Chicagoland Blog Entries: 1	There's an inverting gain stage as a line amp. I can't read the numbers on the schematic too well, but it looks like you've got a cathode resistance of roughly 1K. 125K on the plate. With a plate resistance of 25K and a mu of 44, the effective plate resistance is about 70K. So the gain will be something like 27-30. That's about 29dB, a lot of gain. You can go two routes: easy and non-optimal, or hard but optimal. The former way, just pad down the input. The latter, redesign the stage for much less gain, a non-trivial project. __________________ If there's a sucker born every minute, where do the rest of them come from?

16th June 2005, 08:19 AM	#7
Frank Berry diyAudio Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Midland, Michigan	You can always connect the grid of the cathode follower output stage directly to the volume control and eliminate the gain stage. __________________ Frank

16th June 2005, 11:39 AM	#8
SY diyAudio Moderator Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Chicagoland Blog Entries: 1	Nope, it's not that simple. If you do that, the DC conditions for the CF will be unsatisfactory. Conceptually, it's a fine idea, but implementing it will involve putting a DC bias string and a coupling cap at the input of the CF. That's not horribly difficult, but it will take some design effort to do it right. __________________ If there's a sucker born every minute, where do the rest of them come from?


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15th June 2005, 06:10 AM	#3
ray_moth diyAudio Moderator Emeritus Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Jakarta	A question to ask is, for what main amp sensitivity was your preamp intended? Is it compatible with your amp? If, for example, you have a Leak or Mullard-designed main amp, then the chances are that the output signal of most preamps would be much too high.

16th June 2005, 12:02 PM	#10
SY diyAudio Moderator Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Chicagoland Blog Entries: 1	That's exactly the sort of thing that has given cathode followers a bad reputation. Drop that resistor and the distortion goes sky high. The drive capability goes away, too. To do a proper cathode follower, you need some room under that cathode. Big resistor with a lot of drop or a current source with sufficient compliance. That means cap coupling and biasing up the grid or putting in a negative rail and running a resistor or current source to it. Nontrivial. __________________ If there's a sucker born every minute, where do the rest of them come from?

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