(To the extent possible) I’m asking for technically based/ value opinions:
I need two (hence not too much cost each) identical amps for a DIY active hybrid horn system (105 db midbass & 100 db upper end) I’m putting together. The mid bass starts at 250 Hz, and my hearing drops off at 12 kHz, so extension is not needed.
Do any of these power or integrated amps (available in HK, most by mail order) sound promising options at all, based on their tube compliment??
(Prices are approx)
KELLY - Tube Art Pride 845
6SL7 x 2 , 6SN7 x 2, 845 x 2
NON-feedback 0 db
Class A, 22 W x 2
CATTYLINK:
Melody SP3 USD 650
Power 4 * 5881
12AX7 * 2, 12AU7 * 2, 6922 * 2
38 W x 2
Yarland Pro200SE USD 550
Power 300B
12AX7 * 2, 6SN7 * 2, 5U4G * 1 (rectifier).
Class A, 8 W x 2
LS845B USD 737
845 * 2
6J4P * 2 (rectifiers)
Class A, 22 w * 2.
Yarland FV-34C III integrated
Pre 5670 tube
4 EL84. USD 150!
Opera Cyber-500 monoblocks
300B * 2
6SL7 * 2, 5AR4 * 2
Meixing MC-84A integrated USD 350
13 w *2
EL 84 * 4
12AX7 * 1, 12 AU7 * 2.
Cayin MT12 integrated USD 350
12 w *2
OTK EL 84 * 4
12AX7 * 1, 12 AU7 * 2.
Thanks for any advice
Cheers
I need two (hence not too much cost each) identical amps for a DIY active hybrid horn system (105 db midbass & 100 db upper end) I’m putting together. The mid bass starts at 250 Hz, and my hearing drops off at 12 kHz, so extension is not needed.
Do any of these power or integrated amps (available in HK, most by mail order) sound promising options at all, based on their tube compliment??
(Prices are approx)
KELLY - Tube Art Pride 845
6SL7 x 2 , 6SN7 x 2, 845 x 2
NON-feedback 0 db
Class A, 22 W x 2
CATTYLINK:
Melody SP3 USD 650
Power 4 * 5881
12AX7 * 2, 12AU7 * 2, 6922 * 2
38 W x 2
Yarland Pro200SE USD 550
Power 300B
12AX7 * 2, 6SN7 * 2, 5U4G * 1 (rectifier).
Class A, 8 W x 2
LS845B USD 737
845 * 2
6J4P * 2 (rectifiers)
Class A, 22 w * 2.
Yarland FV-34C III integrated
Pre 5670 tube
4 EL84. USD 150!
Opera Cyber-500 monoblocks
300B * 2
6SL7 * 2, 5AR4 * 2
Meixing MC-84A integrated USD 350
13 w *2
EL 84 * 4
12AX7 * 1, 12 AU7 * 2.
Cayin MT12 integrated USD 350
12 w *2
OTK EL 84 * 4
12AX7 * 1, 12 AU7 * 2.
Thanks for any advice
Cheers
I don't know anything about the cited kits (I'm pretty much a beginner so, in fact, I don't know much about the respective qualities of amps period). but I do know that at 100db efficiency, you only need one watt for 100db output. So, unless you have a huge room or like your music loud to the point of hearing damage, you could get by with a couple of watts output.
I plugged in "low powered tube amps" into Yahoo and got this review: http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/0302/aslwave8.htm
The Antique Sound Lab amps cited in the article were US $99, in 2002. I'm sure if you looked you would find other choices in your price range. You might get more for your money by looking at low power amps.
Sheldon
I plugged in "low powered tube amps" into Yahoo and got this review: http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/0302/aslwave8.htm
The Antique Sound Lab amps cited in the article were US $99, in 2002. I'm sure if you looked you would find other choices in your price range. You might get more for your money by looking at low power amps.
Sheldon
Hi
Yes, you only need one watt for 100 db, but for dynamic headroom 10-20 watts would be desirable.
The Antique Sound Labs monoblocks ($200 a pair) S/N Ratio: is only 70 dB! Although I don’t want to spend much, that is a bit too noisy I’m afraid.
I just checked at www.divertech.com/antiquesl.html and it’s been apparently replaced as their entry model with a $345 a side monoblock ($US 690) Wave AV-25 DT with S/N Ratio of 80dB with 2 * 6L6, and 1 * 12AX7s.
For eg $US 350, the Cayin MT12 has OTK EL 84 * 4, 12AX7 * 1 and 12 AU7 * 2.
Any comments based on their tube compliment on the amps listed?
Thanks
Yes, you only need one watt for 100 db, but for dynamic headroom 10-20 watts would be desirable.
The Antique Sound Labs monoblocks ($200 a pair) S/N Ratio: is only 70 dB! Although I don’t want to spend much, that is a bit too noisy I’m afraid.
I just checked at www.divertech.com/antiquesl.html and it’s been apparently replaced as their entry model with a $345 a side monoblock ($US 690) Wave AV-25 DT with S/N Ratio of 80dB with 2 * 6L6, and 1 * 12AX7s.
For eg $US 350, the Cayin MT12 has OTK EL 84 * 4, 12AX7 * 1 and 12 AU7 * 2.
Any comments based on their tube compliment on the amps listed?
Thanks
I didn't mean to imply that I endorsed the amp I cited, only to use it as an example of what you might find.
Not trying to belabor the point, so I won't beyond this. Normal listening levels are not 100db, but more like 70-80. So a couple of watts does give you significant head room, especially since each amp only has to cover a small range. More power won't hurt, but costs more, all else equal.
Sheldon
Not trying to belabor the point, so I won't beyond this. Normal listening levels are not 100db, but more like 70-80. So a couple of watts does give you significant head room, especially since each amp only has to cover a small range. More power won't hurt, but costs more, all else equal.
Sheldon
rick57 said:
It mist be an "integrated" amp... there is 1 more tube than necessary there for just a power amp. If this was point-to-point it could be the basis of a project amp (ie pre-built kit).
There are some schools that say in a 2-way speaker system like yours to use a PP amp on the bottom, and an SE amp with the same output tube on the top. I'm a big fan of EL84, so this is a candidtae... a really good SE EL84 kit is the Decware ZEN. A DIY SE EL84 is also not all thet hard, something based on the RH84 being the seeming amp of choice. DIYing you can also look for small OPTs with no bass but extended highs. An RH84 PP with a differential front-end is also possible -- have a look at this thread
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=53969
where Gingertube talks about an ECL86 version (ECL86 can be considered to be 1/2 of a 12AX7 + an EL84 in the same bottle)
dave
> It mist be an "integrated" amp... there is 1 more tube than necessary there for just a power amp.
Yes, it must be integrated.
If this was point-to-point it could be the basis of a project amp (ie pre-built kit).
Don’t know, it’s off a cryptic (extremely slow loading) site http://cattylink.com/
> There are some schools that say in a 2-way speaker system like yours, to use a PP amp on the bottom, and an SE amp with the same output tube on the top.
It’s actually a 4 way: < 250 Hz dipole (driven probably by Hypex), 250 – 1000 Hz horn midbass with tube amp 1, 1000 – 4000 PHL 1040 & Aurum 1: tube amp 2.
> I'm a big fan of EL84, so this is a candidtae... a really good SE EL84 kit is the Decware ZEN. A DIY SE EL84 is also not all thet hard, something based on the RH84 being the seeming amp of choice.
I’ve heard quite a few good things about EL84s. Other things being equal, I’d probably go a triode. I’ve heard good things about the Decware ZEN ($678). But at only 2 w, it may not be enough; maybe the 8 w Zen Taboo could be.
I’ll look into the RH84.
> DIYing you can also look for small OPTs with no bass but extended highs.
For >250 & >1000 that would be fine. But would small OPTs also have reduced dynamics??
I’ll have a read of Gingertube thread a bit alter as time permits
Thanks heaps!!
Any other views?
Cheers
Yes, it must be integrated.
If this was point-to-point it could be the basis of a project amp (ie pre-built kit).
Don’t know, it’s off a cryptic (extremely slow loading) site http://cattylink.com/
> There are some schools that say in a 2-way speaker system like yours, to use a PP amp on the bottom, and an SE amp with the same output tube on the top.
It’s actually a 4 way: < 250 Hz dipole (driven probably by Hypex), 250 – 1000 Hz horn midbass with tube amp 1, 1000 – 4000 PHL 1040 & Aurum 1: tube amp 2.
> I'm a big fan of EL84, so this is a candidtae... a really good SE EL84 kit is the Decware ZEN. A DIY SE EL84 is also not all thet hard, something based on the RH84 being the seeming amp of choice.
I’ve heard quite a few good things about EL84s. Other things being equal, I’d probably go a triode. I’ve heard good things about the Decware ZEN ($678). But at only 2 w, it may not be enough; maybe the 8 w Zen Taboo could be.
I’ll look into the RH84.
> DIYing you can also look for small OPTs with no bass but extended highs.
For >250 & >1000 that would be fine. But would small OPTs also have reduced dynamics??
I’ll have a read of Gingertube thread a bit alter as time permits
Thanks heaps!!
Any other views?
Cheers
How about a scratch built Ultralinear?
I just read in another thread here:
"Its faster, better pace, rhythm and attack than triode mode.
Its lower output impedance than pentode mode and therefore requires less feedback to achieve a good damping factor.
Harmonic Distortion is less than either Triode or Pentode Mode
Intermodulation Distortion is less than Triode or Pentode Mode.
These last two items tell me its more linear than Triode or Pentode mode and rule 1 for any feedback design is make it as linear as possible BEFORE applying feedback.
AND not insignificantly - it sounds lovely and is simple."
www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=52619&perpage=10&highlight=&pagenumber=2
I just read in another thread here:
"Its faster, better pace, rhythm and attack than triode mode.
Its lower output impedance than pentode mode and therefore requires less feedback to achieve a good damping factor.
Harmonic Distortion is less than either Triode or Pentode Mode
Intermodulation Distortion is less than Triode or Pentode Mode.
These last two items tell me its more linear than Triode or Pentode mode and rule 1 for any feedback design is make it as linear as possible BEFORE applying feedback.
AND not insignificantly - it sounds lovely and is simple."
www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=52619&perpage=10&highlight=&pagenumber=2
Is the Ultralinear form of feedback as detrimental as the normal feedback in some (many) amps?
Has anyone heard UL and found it faster, . .
. . that its lower output impedance (or other requires) requires less feedback to achieve a good damping factor.
. . . (I won’t worry about THD)
and that measured IMD is heard distortion is less than Triode or Pentode?
Has anyone heard UL and found it faster, . .
. . that its lower output impedance (or other requires) requires less feedback to achieve a good damping factor.
. . . (I won’t worry about THD)
and that measured IMD is heard distortion is less than Triode or Pentode?
BTW, all the listed amps (bar the first) are available by mail order from HK.
> There are some schools that say in a 2-way speaker system like yours, to use a PP amp on the bottom, and an SE amp with the same output tube on the top.
Sensible - in this case where the two are mid and top, that would be SE.
Any thoughts on a complement of:
OTK EL 84 * 4, 12AX7 * 1 and 12 AU7 * 2
> There are some schools that say in a 2-way speaker system like yours, to use a PP amp on the bottom, and an SE amp with the same output tube on the top.
Sensible - in this case where the two are mid and top, that would be SE.
Any thoughts on a complement of:
OTK EL 84 * 4, 12AX7 * 1 and 12 AU7 * 2
Hi Dave
It’s a 4 way, 3 amp:
< 250 Hz dipole H frame (driven probably by Hypex),
250 – 1000 Hz horn midbass with tube amp 1,
1000 – 4000 PHL 1040 & Aurum 1: tube amp 2.
P10: Looks like a PP integrated amp...
Yes, haven’t done this before, but I believe I’ll only use the volume control for initial balancing of the system. I’d be happy with a PP power amp, but that’s not available at that price.
I don’t know if there’s likely to be impedance issues.
Cheers
It’s a 4 way, 3 amp:
< 250 Hz dipole H frame (driven probably by Hypex),
250 – 1000 Hz horn midbass with tube amp 1,
1000 – 4000 PHL 1040 & Aurum 1: tube amp 2.
P10: Looks like a PP integrated amp...
Yes, haven’t done this before, but I believe I’ll only use the volume control for initial balancing of the system. I’d be happy with a PP power amp, but that’s not available at that price.
I don’t know if there’s likely to be impedance issues.
Cheers
rick57 said:
PP Here -- class A RH84 differential amp, about 10W. Or Yvesm/gingertubes new unnamed creation/variant.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=53969
An SE amp here -- you said 105 dB? isn't that optimistic for these drivers... and RH84 would give about 5 W.
If you build from a kit you can always leave out the extraneous gain stage (one of the reasons looking for a Point-to-point is encouraged -- easier to morph)
You can start from scratch or choose a suitable kit or used as a base -- some of those kits come pre-built (ie ASL, and some of the other Chinese ones)
dave
What is the RH84 in a RH84 differential amp?
> you said 105 dB? isn't that optimistic for these drivers
The 105 dB is the JBL with horn loading, the PHL 1040 & Aurum 1 are 100 dB.
> If you build from a kit you can always leave out the extraneous gain stage (one of the reasons looking for a Point-to-point is encouraged -- easier to morph)
Good point
> You can start from scratch or choose a suitable kit or used as a base -- some of those kits come pre-built (ie ASL, and some of the other Chinese ones)
The Zen Triode or Taboo is on the contenders list. Last light is was staring to red the great thread ‘build with 300d or something else’. Angel and later (post thread, Patrick turner) was getting me a bit about excited about the 6550, I’ve got to research a lot more.
Anyone here like the 6550?
I like the attributes allocated so far to the Yvesm/ gingertubes new unnamed creation (who’s going to christen it?). Wonder what all the parts would cost??
Cheers
> you said 105 dB? isn't that optimistic for these drivers
The 105 dB is the JBL with horn loading, the PHL 1040 & Aurum 1 are 100 dB.
> If you build from a kit you can always leave out the extraneous gain stage (one of the reasons looking for a Point-to-point is encouraged -- easier to morph)
Good point
> You can start from scratch or choose a suitable kit or used as a base -- some of those kits come pre-built (ie ASL, and some of the other Chinese ones)
The Zen Triode or Taboo is on the contenders list. Last light is was staring to red the great thread ‘build with 300d or something else’. Angel and later (post thread, Patrick turner) was getting me a bit about excited about the 6550, I’ve got to research a lot more.
Anyone here like the 6550?
I like the attributes allocated so far to the Yvesm/ gingertubes new unnamed creation (who’s going to christen it?). Wonder what all the parts would cost??
Cheers
rick57 said:
Depends on your ability to scrounge... transformers are the priciest bits (and OPTs in particular play a very big role in the sound quality)... a scrounged PP chassis out of a console might set you back a couple bucks (or less) once the drivers are flipped... all the way to buying something like amophous core Lundahls which would set uou back a grand (by the time you buy other parts of comenserate quality)
My donors come in the former category...
This is the donor for the OPTs & tubes (Philips MiniWatts made in Herleen/aka Mullard, Valvo)
dave
rick57 said:
Yep... sometimes found on the street for free (ocassionally i get calls from people -- please can you take it away?
re-sold. That is how i ended up with much of my iron collection (before i started winnowing, enuff to make a 100 amps) -- buying consoles as a source for vintage drivers to sell on eBay so that i can scrounge out a living. In general German ones are the most valuable (and often the least expensive because the furniture part (just so much wood for the burn pile for me) isn't as fancy.
dave
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