Great! Thanks for all the info, these are the kind of things I thought must be out there.
It’ll take quite a while to digest, and longer to evaluate.
Advanced tube amp shortcut (I’m more of a speaker guy), expecting little likelihood:
are any of the good new approaches at present available in a kit??
Thanks
It’ll take quite a while to digest, and longer to evaluate.
Advanced tube amp shortcut (I’m more of a speaker guy), expecting little likelihood:
are any of the good new approaches at present available in a kit??
Thanks
rick57 said:
There's a LOT of kits out there. Maybe you should state what your expectations are, i.e. why you are looking to buy a "new approach" amp? Do you just like the idea of having a cutting edge gadget if for no other reason (nothing wrong with that IMO by the way)? Do you expect cost to be lower with some sprinkling of silicon in the design? Do you expect that it must necessarily sound better with new designs? Do you expect it to last longer because shorter life components have been substituted out?
Sorry if I sounded overly negative, but I had to get it out of my system.... There is some good stuff out there.... but a lot of snake oil too. You guys are right, capacitors in the old stuff have to be replaced. Components are better now.
Andy; I LOVE those new Svetlana 6N1P's. VERY lively sounding. I liked them so much, I just built a PP amp with those in the output stage! No more than a couple watts, but sounds good. Those old 6S4A's are very nice for cheap power too (I have some).
Andy; I LOVE those new Svetlana 6N1P's. VERY lively sounding. I liked them so much, I just built a PP amp with those in the output stage! No more than a couple watts, but sounds good. Those old 6S4A's are very nice for cheap power too (I have some).
PS: one more comment; it IS encouraging to me that good old fashioned do-it-yourself is still around! For some reason, I thought it died with Heathkit. Until I started looking around the net, I thought nobody did this stuff anymore. Thank God for you people. There are still people who are willing to look past the commercial compromises and find out what really works. Never let that flame die!
I don't think there's a whole lot new in the tube world...
There may have been a few "refinements" over the years,as we learned more about transformers,components,etc..
I think now theres a lot of 'relearning' going on..I think alot of the tube information kinda died off,now people are digging it up,and relearning it all over again..
Components have certainly become better,and there are things available now that weren't around back then...Now you can use SS devices as slaves to the tubes,and come up with CCS's,simple B+ delay circuits,and other things like that..Not to mention reliable SS rectifiers.
There's been a few new ideas tossed around,battery biasing with Ni-cd cells or other similar things with zener diodes,etc.
Also some companies are making "new" tube types,Like the Sovtek 12AX7LPS,with low-hum spiral filaments,like a 7025...
Not really new a tube,but atleast a new variant..(and I kinda like them)
But the basics remain the same.. Circuits are still pretty much the same,Some of the parts have become better (caps),or there might be minor tweaks (B+ delays,bias monitoring,etc) but it's pretty much all the same.. Whatever works
There may have been a few "refinements" over the years,as we learned more about transformers,components,etc..
I think now theres a lot of 'relearning' going on..I think alot of the tube information kinda died off,now people are digging it up,and relearning it all over again..
Components have certainly become better,and there are things available now that weren't around back then...Now you can use SS devices as slaves to the tubes,and come up with CCS's,simple B+ delay circuits,and other things like that..Not to mention reliable SS rectifiers.
There's been a few new ideas tossed around,battery biasing with Ni-cd cells or other similar things with zener diodes,etc.
Also some companies are making "new" tube types,Like the Sovtek 12AX7LPS,with low-hum spiral filaments,like a 7025...
Not really new a tube,but atleast a new variant..(and I kinda like them)
But the basics remain the same.. Circuits are still pretty much the same,Some of the parts have become better (caps),or there might be minor tweaks (B+ delays,bias monitoring,etc) but it's pretty much all the same.. Whatever works
Modern Advances
The new tube amp kits are better than most vintage amps.
Modern higher-end coupling capacitors are superior to every vintage capicator I ever auditioned if one likes clean & transparent sonics.
The internet is a boost to the DIY tube audio crowd.
I believe it is a great time for tube audio, however best squirrel away older tubes for supporting your favorite tube amp. Older quality tubes will be used for trading for other tubes in the future.
The new tube amp kits are better than most vintage amps.
Modern higher-end coupling capacitors are superior to every vintage capicator I ever auditioned if one likes clean & transparent sonics.
The internet is a boost to the DIY tube audio crowd.
I believe it is a great time for tube audio, however best squirrel away older tubes for supporting your favorite tube amp. Older quality tubes will be used for trading for other tubes in the future.
Thank you for all your replies, some of which took a while to write (it will take me a while to read all the links).
The thing that strikes me the most is the depth, intelligence and plain good nature of the posters here. Someone once said to me that most people in the wine trade (small wineries, of which there are quite a number here in Australia) are “good people”; it seems the same with tube people.
This gives me a little extra incentive to jump camp from the SS world.
It may have appeared that I was keen to do a “new approach”. (Partly what triggered my thinking was seeing Dynaco clone kits for sale). I don’t mind an old approach if eg there are no new designs have been done that take advantage of the better quality components etc to refine the design, maybe from motor run polypropylenes, triode output stages.
Whatever gives the most dynamics and the cleanest mids and treble. Budget is probably max $US 1200 for a two channel 20 w power amp, preferably less say $1000.
It seems many of the components have improved, except notably the tubes.
** I just remembered an experience from a while back, that at the back of my mind triggered the original post:
I compared three amps through very good Osborn made Focal speakers.
- well regarded Bryston 4B - 3rd on sound quality
- Audio Research of a quarter the power - 2nd, and
- Lowest powered but unusual Audio Aero’s Capitole - 1st .
The difference between AA – AR, seemed more than the difference AR – Bryston.
From www.audioaero.com/
“50 W Class A special push-pull configuration leans on the very musical E34L triode wired, supported all the time by the powerful KT88 pentode.”
I recall (a little dimly now) that the Audio Aero had an unusual topology, that they claimed someone had tried to do in the 1950s, and failed. Maybe wrong, but I think it was this amp that operates SET up to a certain watts, then switches automatically into pentode mode.
Anyone heard the AA Capitole (different topology to the less expensive AAs)?
andy what is CCS?
Jeff
> Typically, the circuits used in new kits are older than the circuits used in vintage amps you've compared them to.
Why would that be?
Cheers
The thing that strikes me the most is the depth, intelligence and plain good nature of the posters here. Someone once said to me that most people in the wine trade (small wineries, of which there are quite a number here in Australia) are “good people”; it seems the same with tube people.
This gives me a little extra incentive to jump camp from the SS world.
It may have appeared that I was keen to do a “new approach”. (Partly what triggered my thinking was seeing Dynaco clone kits for sale). I don’t mind an old approach if eg there are no new designs have been done that take advantage of the better quality components etc to refine the design, maybe from motor run polypropylenes, triode output stages.
Whatever gives the most dynamics and the cleanest mids and treble. Budget is probably max $US 1200 for a two channel 20 w power amp, preferably less say $1000.
It seems many of the components have improved, except notably the tubes.
** I just remembered an experience from a while back, that at the back of my mind triggered the original post:
I compared three amps through very good Osborn made Focal speakers.
- well regarded Bryston 4B - 3rd on sound quality
- Audio Research of a quarter the power - 2nd, and
- Lowest powered but unusual Audio Aero’s Capitole - 1st .
The difference between AA – AR, seemed more than the difference AR – Bryston.
From www.audioaero.com/
“50 W Class A special push-pull configuration leans on the very musical E34L triode wired, supported all the time by the powerful KT88 pentode.”
I recall (a little dimly now) that the Audio Aero had an unusual topology, that they claimed someone had tried to do in the 1950s, and failed. Maybe wrong, but I think it was this amp that operates SET up to a certain watts, then switches automatically into pentode mode.
Anyone heard the AA Capitole (different topology to the less expensive AAs)?
andy what is CCS?
Jeff
> Typically, the circuits used in new kits are older than the circuits used in vintage amps you've compared them to.
Why would that be?
Cheers
Rick, in your price range, you could probably swing one of Joe Curcio's kits. His 6DJ8 cascode diff amp with constant current source (CCS) and active regulation of the rails is an excellent example of modern tube amp design. I've got his circuit from Glass Audio running in a Stereo 70 chassis and it works well (though I did have to play with the compensation to get square waves to look good) and has been very reliable.
The full Curcio kit (assembled PC board, his premium Magnequest transformers, tubes, enclosures & hardware) is $US 2850 - 
Whoo!
Then he charges 20% extra for ‘processing’ an overseas order! (and the usual freight charges).
www.curcioaudio.com/mqdes_3.htm
Even just the PC Board is $1125.
It sounded highly promising, but just too dear. Any other suggestions?
(Anyone in Hong Kong? I hope to be there in October)
Whoo! Then he charges 20% extra for ‘processing’ an overseas order! (and the usual freight charges).
www.curcioaudio.com/mqdes_3.htm
Even just the PC Board is $1125.
It sounded highly promising, but just too dear. Any other suggestions?
(Anyone in Hong Kong? I hope to be there in October)
If you want a diff cascode front end, and a much smaller bill, you could always build Allen Wright's PP1C. Very fine amp; I've built a couple now. Schematics are on his site, and the Lundahl iron he recommends is available locally through the distributor, but you could use whatever you choose that meets the specs.
If you want a diff cascode front end, and a much smaller bill, you could always build Allen Wright's PP1C.>
Very good idea - and you can probably substitute 300B in the outputs, which would give you serious audiophile quality. I'm not nuts about the 6922, I must confess, but the circuit is well tried. I'm wondering about alternatives to the 6922. The ECC40 is a good one, and designed for cascode, but pretty far fetched for a beginner and I haven't tried it anyway. They do a brisk trade on ebay, and were widely used in Europe.
Very good idea - and you can probably substitute 300B in the outputs, which would give you serious audiophile quality. I'm not nuts about the 6922, I must confess, but the circuit is well tried. I'm wondering about alternatives to the 6922. The ECC40 is a good one, and designed for cascode, but pretty far fetched for a beginner and I haven't tried it anyway. They do a brisk trade on ebay, and were widely used in Europe.
6DJ8/6922 is very good in cascodes. I don't like them much anywhere else.andyjevans said:
I'm not a 300B fan so I don't see a lot of improvement with them: I think they're very overrated. It's an excellent amp as it is, and held up very well in comparisons to the Amity and Pimm PP47.
Run the outputs with KT88/6550 and run them low and hot, quite different op points to Allen's usage. But I have horns so a couple of watts is enough.
The last contact details I have areaudiousername said:
Control Audio Pty Ltd
Mr. Rick Dowel
Phone +61 - (0)2 - 9368 7100
Fax +61 - (0)2 - 9368 7199
Email: sales@controldevices.net
Usually a 4 - 6 week lead time depending on what you want. Hifi stuff is a small percentage of what they do.
Very good people to deal with.
30W
A little italian jewel§:
VTAF from the well reputed audio designer Bartolomeo Aloia, a 15/30W EL34 PP, see for example the description in
http://www.audiodesignguide.com/ba/
He sell all the key parts and the price is in the range You indicated. No cabinet, this is left to yours ability.
Have fun,
Piergiorgio
A little italian jewel§:
VTAF from the well reputed audio designer Bartolomeo Aloia, a 15/30W EL34 PP, see for example the description in
http://www.audiodesignguide.com/ba/
He sell all the key parts and the price is in the range You indicated. No cabinet, this is left to yours ability.
Have fun,
Piergiorgio
Regarding cascodes, I just tried two alternatives to the 6922 as follows:
6BQ7 - bright, detailed sound
6BK7 - now, this is a bit magical - mellower, slightly more distant, but some 3D soundstaging and it just has a certain something. Well worth a listen. This was used in Scott and McIntosh tuners in the front end, as was 6BQ7
I haven't tried the ECC40 yet, though I have some waiting to try.
6BQ7 - bright, detailed sound
6BK7 - now, this is a bit magical - mellower, slightly more distant, but some 3D soundstaging and it just has a certain something. Well worth a listen. This was used in Scott and McIntosh tuners in the front end, as was 6BQ7
I haven't tried the ECC40 yet, though I have some waiting to try.
rick57 said:The full Curcio kit (assembled PC board, his premium Magnequest transformers, tubes, enclosures & hardware) is $US 2850 -
Then he charges 20% extra for ‘processing’ an overseas order! (and the usual freight charges).
www.curcioaudio.com/mqdes_3.htm
Even just the PC Board is $1125.
YOW! I think I paid $300 for the driver and regulator boards and all parts/tubes from Old Colony. A Stereo 70 is another couple hundred. I had no idea that JC had gone the woo-woo pricing route. Sorry.
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