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-   -   Any subs for 6N1 & 6N2 twin triode valves? (http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/tubes-valves/49381-any-subs-6n1-6n2-twin-triode-valves.html)

rcavictim 12th January 2005 12:39 AM

Any subs for 6N1 & 6N2 twin triode valves?
 
I have an amp that uses two of each of these Chinese/Russian 9 pin miniature triodes and I just cannot obtain exact replacements easily. I would like to know if any more radily available tubes in North America can be subbed successfully for these. I subbed one out in the amp with a 6DJ8 and it worked but I didn't do any instrumentational testing on the amp at the time so I don't know if performance was as good, better or worse.

Thank you for any input.

X.G. 12th January 2005 04:56 AM

Hi,

I found these(say : the same type)

6N1 : *6H16AQ8AA61ECC40/82

6N2 : *6H26AX76AV7ECC41

from here
http://www.ds-hifi.com/dgzl/dangguan12.htm

I am not tube guy,but I think you may substitute to much more dual triodes

nanana 12th January 2005 02:01 PM

hey!
6N1P is 6BK7, 6BQ7... not 6AQ8
it is "remote cut-off" for AGC stuff and TV/FM tuner front end. nice tube.
jc

X.G. 12th January 2005 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by nanana
hey!
6N1P is 6BK7, 6BQ7... not 6AQ8
it is "remote cut-off" for AGC stuff and TV/FM tuner front end. nice tube.
jc

"remote cut-off"?pentode?

No!I am convinced of that the 6N1 & 6N2 are dual-triodes.I have many of them:cool:

nanana 12th January 2005 06:20 PM

thats remote cutoff triode! not pentode... this simply means that the triodes mu varies with bias... this is useful for many things. particularly AGC and compressor/limiter stuff. with a fixed bias or a small signal... the tube's mu doesn't vary. great all around preamp tube. you can make a vacuum tube volume control with it too!
jc

X.G. 13th January 2005 12:09 AM

2 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally posted by nanana
thats remote cutoff triode! not pentode...
Oh!....I am not a tube guy:D ;) ....I just know the pentode have the remote cutoff type, not the triode. Is really what you say ?

I have the datasheet of 6N1 & 6N2.If anyone is interested in that,I would post all here.

This is the first page:cool:

nanana 13th January 2005 04:00 AM

hey X.G.
i'm afraid you are quite mistaken...
remote triodes are common and important for RF and AF. again, i repeat: a remote cutoff triode is simply a triode designed to vary the mu with bias. if you look at the russian 6N1P data sheet that has the plate curves, you will see if you look across the 5mA line on the plate curves that the curves flatten out as the grid bias increases. not as much as some other tubes but enough to qualify as "variable mu". actually, the 12AU7 is also quite variable mu as well and is used in one very well known and much admired studio compressor (tube tech). i don't think anyone would describe the 12AU7 as "remote cutoff" but it definitely is. in any case, a quick look at the 6BK7 data sheet will show you how close the 6N1P is... just because the tube is variable mu doesn't mean that its no good! it simply means that if you vary the bias, the gain changes. this was done to make automatic gain control (AGC) for radios and mic preamps and many other clever things.
jc

rcavictim 13th January 2005 05:09 AM

Thank you all for your assistance. I remembered that I had a 5 pack of NOS, NIB General Electric 6BK7B's and tried one today in one channel instead of the 6N1. It appears to have the same gain and sound in this circuit. It sure is a radically different tube internally though. The 6N1 has a U shaped folded plate on each side of a wide flat cathode (like a 6J6 or 6080). The 6BK7 is very tiny and looks a bit like the triode section in a 417A with a very small cilindrical cathode. I am pleased that my 6BK7 shows no sign of microphony and is otherwise dead quiet. I want to put the amp on a scope and see how the alternate tubes look.

I recall that I had used a 6DJ8 instead of the 6N2 at one time as a test and it appeared to work fine. I see that I have other alternatives. I have a good stock of NIB, NOS 6ES8's (remote cutoff triodes otherwise identical to 6DJ8) and plan to try these as well out of curiosity, and of course 6922.

BTW, the amp I'm playing with is a lovely little MingDa MC34-B. The factory supplied, performance selected 6N1's and 2's are excellent and non-microphonic but I know they won't last forever.

X.G. 13th January 2005 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by nanana
hey X.G.
i'm afraid you are quite mistaken...
remote triodes are common and important for RF and AF. again, i repeat: a remote cutoff triode is simply a triode designed to vary the mu with bias. if you look at the russian 6N1P data sheet that has the plate curves, you will see if you look across the 5mA line on the plate curves that the curves flatten out as the grid bias increases. not as much as some other tubes but enough to qualify as "variable mu". actually, the 12AU7 is also quite variable mu as well and is used in one very well known and much admired studio compressor (tube tech). i don't think anyone would describe the 12AU7 as "remote cutoff" but it definitely is. in any case, a quick look at the 6BK7 data sheet will show you how close the 6N1P is... just because the tube is variable mu doesn't mean that its no good! it simply means that if you vary the bias, the gain changes. this was done to make automatic gain control (AGC) for radios and mic preamps and many other clever things.
jc

Thanks a lot for your kind reply and the detail explanation:hbeat:

...my more infos of the Chinese tubes;):cool: :

Basing on the history reasons,Chinese tubes almost are based on/same as the Russian tubes,and their parameters are identical in generally:

the chinese website shows that:
http://www.ds-hifi.com/dgzl/dangguan12.htm

1.6N*(6N1P,6N2P....etc) is based on 6H*( 61,62..) of Russian tube...(I type that below in simple:D : 6N*=6H*)...... IIRC,All are twin triodes

the link is for hint:D:
http://tdsl.duncanamps.com/tubesearc...tnSubmit=Query

2.6J*(6J1P,6J2P...etc) is based on 6*(61,62...etc)...IIRC,all are pentodes.

the link is for hint:D:
http://tdsl.duncanamps.com/tubesearc...tnSubmit=Query

3.6P*=6*....IIRC,they are 'power' tube:D (including pentode,beam tube ...and the type which I don't recall:cannotbe: ...etc)

http://tdsl.duncanamps.com/tubesearc...tnSubmit=Query

4.6C*=6C* of Russian tube....IIRC,they are single triode(I just know a bit about them,cause they are less for us:bawling: )

5.FU-*=Y-* ...IIRC,they are radio tubes for transmmit

good luck

X.G.
from China (of cause!:D)

fdegrove 13th January 2005 10:28 AM

Hi,

6N1-P a variable mu twin triode?

I thought the 6N24-P was such a tube, not the 6N1-P.

Anyway if you need some I found a vendor in Holland who should still carry both the 6N1-P and the 6N2-P:

RUSSIAN TRIODES

And an other source:

BTB ELECTRONIK

Cheers, ;)


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