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-   -   TPP versus PSE. (http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/tubes-valves/46515-tpp-versus-pse.html)

GeirW 25th November 2004 02:25 PM

TPP versus PSE.
 
Gday.

It`s certainly exist a or more treads about it,
but i haven`t been able to find one.
What i wanna know is if there are any bennefits
in triode pp over paralell se or visa versa.?

fragman56 25th November 2004 02:31 PM

lowest distortion
 
Some say the best is class A, triode p-p, lowest distortion figures, no nfb,

I have a se 45; a 6bq5 pp triode, class a and other tube amps...I like the p-p trioded 6bq5 a lot! I listn to it more than my 45.

fdegrove 26th November 2004 01:08 AM

Hi,

Assuming you need more power than a single triode(d) amp (SE) can deliver I'd suggest to go for a P-P amp using a single pair of tubes.

Toplogy, penthode, triode, DH or IDH, NFB or no NFB is not something I'd decide on without knowing the more important speaker parameters.
Then of course there's also the issue of personal taste.

Either way, chances are that you'd obtain better results from keeping things as simple as need be, i.e. no PSE or PPP unless you really need to power....Upon which I'd suggest to buy or build some real speakers but I suppose you got the message.;)

Cheers, ;)

Brett 26th November 2004 02:19 AM

You can argue all day about the relative merits of each type, but in the end it comes down to sonic preference.

GeirW 26th November 2004 08:50 AM

Gday.

As you guys prolly. have figured out,
am basicly after making a very simple but good 30-40w pp,
(this would be a secondary project with a friend)
improved pre stage. (differential ?) and triode wire it.
(i guess one tube is better than another, regarding
regarding 30-40 pp in triode.)
Do you guys have a recomandation?
(I see there is at least two threads inn here, covering triode pp.
sounds interesting.)
I honestly don`t know, does it exist triodes for pp conection,
and in case, whats the bennefit over pentodes wired for
triode.
One more question:
What is the audible difference between 3. stage and 2. stage,
if there are.?

@fdegrove.
As of speakers, i have nothing much to go on.
They will certainly be easy drive/high sensetivety
and 4 ohm, (home buildt for sure)

@Brett.
The Hf/Mf are the main consearn. When it regards bass,
i gather most of the issues in Lf can be adjusted in the
loudspeaker prosses.

Brett 26th November 2004 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by GeirW
Gday.

As you guys prolly. have figured out,
am basicly after making a very simple but good 30-40w pp,
(this would be a secondary project with a friend)
improved pre stage. (differential ?) and triode wire it.
(i guess one tube is better than another, regarding
regarding 30-40 pp in triode.)
Do you guys have a recomandation?
(I see there is at least two threads inn here, covering triode pp.
sounds interesting.)
I honestly don`t know, does it exist triodes for pp conection,
and in case, whats the bennefit over pentodes wired for
triode.
One more question:
What is the audible difference between 3. stage and 2. stage,
if there are.?

@fdegrove.
As of speakers, i have nothing much to go on.
They will certainly be easy drive/high sensetivety
and 4 ohm, (home buildt for sure)

@Brett.
The Hf/Mf are the main consearn. When it regards bass,
i gather most of the issues in Lf can be adjusted in the
loudspeaker prosses.


Geir,

If you want 30-40W in triode (presume class A), then you'll either need to transmitter tubes or parallel outputs, say 845 or 813 (trioded) or PPP 300B's, KT88 (trioded) etc. Budget and working voltages are your limitations here.

The difference between two stage and 3 stage is another of those 'depends on design and implementation' questions. For example, most 300B designs use something like the cascaded 6SN7 to drive, whereas a pentode will do it just as easily, and to my ears MUCH better sounding than the 2x6SN7's. But for some, pentodes are against their religion.

If you have high eff speakers ie 95dB+ then likely you don't need 40W especially for MF and HF unless you have a HUGE room or are deaf. LF is what sucks up the power, but if you keep the xover low enough, say <60Hz, then you won't hear the vagaries of most SS amps if they're only run down there and reduces the requirements for the tube amp and opens up a lot more options.

It sounds like you're looking for a simple answer to a complex question, and you don't have all the variables, especially speakers in place yet. Speaks will have a big influence on the sound, so get them sounding right for you, then build the amp(s)

GeirW 26th November 2004 03:08 PM

Gday.

@Brett.
Quote:

If you want 30-40W in triode (presume class A), then you'll either need to transmitter tubes or parallel outputs, say 845 or 813 (trioded) or PPP 300B's, KT88 (trioded) etc
bzzzz. perhaps i didn`t quite make that clear.
30-40. in pentode conection, 15-20 in triode.
Maybe i should limit the wanted effect to 10-15w, coz. the
little thing i have right now, is dual mono el84 SE,
wich give mmm. 11-12w in pentode.
and that`s loud enough for me..
(ain`t exactly small listening room eighter.)
i was going for more juice for a bit more high-drive music,
like ex: NU-metal etc.-

fdegrove 26th November 2004 03:30 PM

Hi,

Geir,

Quote:

little thing i have right now, is dual mono el84 SE,
If that's the little Tandberg we talked about then you're looking at no more than 3-4W tops.

Should that not be loud enough then there's plenty of options but I would NOT run a penthode in SE mode as it will distort too much without NFB.
Applying feedback would reduce distortion and eat the magic
;) in the process.
No problem, you can run a bigger penthode such as the EL34 in pseudo-triode mode or choose from one of the more popular triodes.
Keep in mind that doubling the output power won't give the impression of twice as much acoustical power though.

Cheers,;)

GeirW 26th November 2004 04:59 PM

Gday.

Quote:

If that's the little Tandberg we talked about then you're looking at no more than 3-4W tops
No. it`s not that one, it`s another one .
Infact, this modell never got as long as production line
EDDA radiofabrikk, modell "TOR".
(not a radio, pure amp. stereo, tone controlls and gain,
3. line.)
I copied the amp. from a former co-worker,
god knows where he got it.
It`s Mullard`s 84, and if i got this right, they are rated to 5.7w
in SE pentode. (1.5 as triode)
Am still quite new to tubes, so maybe i read the datasheets
wrong.

fdegrove 26th November 2004 05:23 PM

Hi,

Quote:

Am still quite new to tubes, so maybe i read the datasheets wrong.
No, you read them correctly but don't forget you're going to hit distortion levels approaching 8-9% when you aim for Pmax.

Cheers, ;)


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