211 or EL34Triode? - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > Amplifiers > Tubes / Valves

Tubes / Valves All about our sweet vacuum tubes :) Threads about Musical Instrument Amps of all kinds should be in the Instruments & Amps forum

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 14th November 2004, 01:29 PM   #1
diyAudio Member
 
simon dart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Herefordshire
Default 211 or EL34Triode?

I've got the opportunity to get some output transformers wound by a friend (who I believe knows what he is doing!)

This would be the start of a poweramp project which could go two ways: a pair of 211's or four EL34 triode strapped.

I presently run a pair of EL34's in "triode" which sound great although they struggle to drive my Olsen Ariels as the output transformer is not wound for 4ohms.

I don't want to lose the delicacy and poise of the present set up and am concerned that 211's would spoil the party, although the extra grunt would be welcome.

Any words from the wise out there?
  Reply With Quote
Old 14th November 2004, 05:49 PM   #2
diyAudio Member
 
Brett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
I hardly think a well executed 211 design is going to have less detail than a trioded EL34. Certainly my experience with 813 and GM70 suggests it won't. But in the end, it's all down to how well you do it, both in terms of the circuit and execution.

Personally, I'd go with the 211's, but I like big glowing bottles.

Big caveat though. You'd better be really confident with high voltage design and safety before you tackle a project like this. Both designs are going to be lacking in inner detail if you're dead.
  Reply With Quote
Old 15th November 2004, 02:35 AM   #3
expert in tautology
diyAudio Member
 
bear's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: New York State USA
With the same transformer??

Seems to me that the 211 requires much more voltage and has a substantially higher plate impedance?

If you are expecting to run the primaries of the same output iron that you are now paralleling to get the plate impedance of 2 EL34s per side run in triode and running them in series to get the higher plate impedance, ur in for a surprise. The transformer will not likely work as well with the higher impedance set up in the primary.

Generally speaking, lower ratio output iron can be made to work better with less care and less interleaving, etc...

It also generally takes a larger bit of iron to run a pair of 211s in P-P than it will to run 4 EL-34s. Also the primary inductance will have a big effect on the bass response.

Maybe 4 x 300B in P-P??

Easier to execute.

But the 211s in P-P class A is a nice, but *big* amplfier physically, requiring a large high voltage supply - which as was noted is a good way to get dead quickly if you make a mistake. Just one.

Choose wisely, Luke Skywalker!

_-_-bear
__________________
_-_-bear
http://www.bearlabs.com -- Btw, I don't actually know anything, FYI -- [...2SJ74 Toshiba bogus asian parts - beware! ]
  Reply With Quote
Old 15th November 2004, 02:57 AM   #4
RIP
 
pedroskova's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: C'ville VA, USA
Re: 211...hope you don't have kids or pets to worry about. It seems to me that the 211/845/etc are macho tubes that take the place of fast cars, big boats, and overblown houses, etc.

JMO blah, blah, blah.
  Reply With Quote
Old 15th November 2004, 08:45 AM   #5
diyAudio Member
 
simon dart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Herefordshire
Bear,

I would not entertain using the same transformer for both topologies. It's just the opportunity to make something is there!

10 joules of any HT is bad for your health, I regard all valve circuits as extemely dangerous. I'm just curious to hear what people think of the sound of 211's.

I have to admit that I'm slightly prejudiced against 300B's. They can sound wonderful but never seem to have enough juice to get the music really moving from what little I've heard, also 4 a side are pricey and that money might be better spent elsewhere in the amp.
  Reply With Quote
Old 15th November 2004, 03:52 PM   #6
diyAudio Member
 
Brett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Quote:
Originally posted by simon dart
I'm just curious to hear what people think of the sound of 211's.
Little experience with the 211's, more with 845/813, but the big DHT's can sound excellent, better than about all IDHT trioded pents/tets ime. But it's still a big "it depends" on implementation/design.
Quote:
I have to admit that I'm slightly prejudiced against 300B's. They can sound wonderful but never seem to have enough juice to get the music really moving from what little I've heard, also 4 a side are pricey and that money might be better spent elsewhere in the amp.
I'm not real keen on 300Bs, but if you need more herbs to get your system up and boogie-ing, the 211's might not be a big difference. Power output should be roughly equivalent (within a dB or three ottomh) and the big DHT's have more presence to the sound that belies the wattage. I'd still be using my big amps if I needed the watts.

The final cost of a 211 amp could easily be the same as a 4x300B when you factor in all the other costs for good HV parts.
  Reply With Quote
Old 17th November 2004, 04:41 PM   #7
expert in tautology
diyAudio Member
 
bear's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: New York State USA
And, you need monkey swing to drive the 211s... more often than
not they look like 300Bs or at least 2A3s... A2 or AB2 is the way to go with the big tubes, imho...

Go for it!


_-_-bear
__________________
_-_-bear
http://www.bearlabs.com -- Btw, I don't actually know anything, FYI -- [...2SJ74 Toshiba bogus asian parts - beware! ]
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 07:20 AM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2