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MKP VS Electrolyte

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Q1. Compare with Electrolyte Cap, MKP Cap and MKP Cap in Oil, for power supply filtering, which one is better in performance?

Q2. Since some of the high-end electrolyte cap (e.g. Black Gate, Jensen etc) is very $$$. When it compare with low/mid end MKP Cap (e.g. Solen) used in power supply filtering, which one is better?

Q3. Theoretical speaking, compare between electrolyte cap and MKP cap, which one is closer to the perfect cap characteristic?

Q4. Some of the MKP cap is kept inside a metal can in oil, what is the function of the oil? Compare with the non-oiled MKP, any different?


Thank you for your help.

Tuna Fish
:)
 
Konnichiwa,

TunaFish said:
Q1. Compare with Electrolyte Cap, MKP Cap and MKP Cap in Oil, for power supply filtering, which one is better in performance?

Depends who you ask. having compared most I'd say MKP suitably encased (plastic casing often preferable to metal casing).

TunaFish said:
Q2. Since some of the high-end electrolyte cap (e.g. Black Gate, Jensen etc) is very $$$. When it compare with low/mid end MKP Cap (e.g. Solen) used in power supply filtering, which one is better?

Usually MKP. What needs to be understood is that the metal can encasing of 'lytics and the "soft" layers between the foil plus the presence of a real metal foil can reduce microphonic and electrostatic effects compared to especially unencased MKP types. Encased MKP capacitors wound with sufficient tension are as good and better with respect to these effects.

The cheap unencased Solen/SRC capacitors are quite terrible WRT microphonics and can sound very bad.

TunaFish said:
Q3. Theoretical speaking, compare between electrolyte cap and MKP cap, which one is closer to the perfect cap characteristic?

MKP.

TunaFish said:
Q4. Some of the MKP cap is kept inside a metal can in oil, what is the function of the oil?

These capacitors are made for Motor Run/Start application and I believe the main function of the oil is to allow efficient heat exchange between the capacitor "core" and the (metal) casing to allow higher continous current level than in non filled capacitors.

TunaFish said:
Compare with the non-oiled MKP, any different?

Sometimes. The Oil can help damp resonances in the capacitor foil, but tehn if the capacitor solidly tension would and solidly encased the resonances are eliminated at the source.

TunaFish said:
Tuna Fish

For Tuna Fish encased in metal casings oil filling is definitly recommended.... ;)

Sayonara
 
Re: Re: MKP VS Electrolyte

Kuei Yang Wang said:
Konnichiwa,

The cheap unencased Solen/SRC capacitors are quite terrible WRT microphonics and can sound very bad.


For Tuna Fish encased in metal casings oil filling is definitly recommended.... ;)

Sayonara

Thank you for your help!:D

What is WRT?:confused:

I love you recommendation very much!!!;)

Tuna Fish
 
Look for motor run caps, they are cheap, of uniform good quality and very reliable.

You can get up to 100uF motor run caps for less than 100USD.

Most motor run caps are better quality than the "audio" MKP caps...unfortunately you will have to write "audio cap" on them yourself ;-)

I have recently sourced 50uF motor run caps for myself and a friend of mine, of great quality, for something like 35USD a piece.


Magura:)
 
Re: Re: Re: MKP VS Electrolyte

Konnichiwa,

TunaFish said:
What is WRT?:confused:

WRT = With Regards To


Magura said:
Look for motor run caps, they are cheap, of uniform good quality and very reliable.

Absolutely.

Magura said:
Most motor run caps are better quality than the "audio" MKP caps...unfortunately you will have to write "audio cap" on them yourself ;-)

Yup. One trick, cut away (or remove) the threaded stud often found, fill in and sand over smoothly any holes and then have them spraypaineted by a car painting place in metallic silver or whatever takes your fancy and place them on top of the amplifier on show. Print your own "Audible Pulchritude Capacitor - Specially for Audio" clear sticky labels with a nice 1930's style font and a big flash on it in a nice contrasting colour and stick them on....

Magura said:
I have recently sourced 50uF motor run caps for myself and a friend of mine, of great quality, for something like 35USD a piece.

Someone sure made a huge profit there....

Cricklewood Electronics sells rather nice Ducati made Polypropylenen Motor Run Capacitors 50uF/450VAC -
(equates to 630VDC minimum) for $US 12 each (actually 6.50 UK Pound), plus taxes.

Sayonara
 
diyAudio Senior Member
Joined 2002
OIL ANYONE?

Hi,

For Tuna Fish encased in metal casings oil filling is definitly recommended....

This one's for the smaller projects:

Sardine preamp, AKA the Aldi Project:

Cheers,;)
 

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Magura said:
Look for motor run caps, they are cheap, of uniform good quality and very reliable.
Are they the same thing as power factor correction caps like used in fluorescent light fixtures etc? I know a power factor cap is rated for across-the-mains usage but a motor-run cap is generally in series with a motor winding so it would not need to have as stringent a specification.
 
Konnichiwa,

Circlotron said:
Are they the same thing as power factor correction caps like used in fluorescent light fixtures etc?

Not quiet. For safety Reasons the Lightning capaictors are often metalised Paper.

Circlotron said:
I know a power factor cap is rated for across-the-mains usage but a motor-run cap is generally in series with a motor winding so it would not need to have as stringent a specification.

This point is debatable. A Motor Run Capacitor needs to phaseshift the entire winding current (around 50% of the motors normap current consumption), often very significant current. As current and voltage go out of phase you often have high current flow with a significantly higher voltage than you find across the mains lines.

Ultimatly I would think both well usable.

Sayonara
 
Q1. Compare with Electrolyte Cap, MKP Cap and MKP Cap in Oil, for power supply filtering, which one is better in performance?

Q2. Since some of the high-end electrolyte cap (e.g. Black Gate, Jensen etc) is very $$$. When it compare with low/mid end MKP Cap (e.g. Solen) used in power supply filtering, which one is better?

Q3. Theoretical speaking, compare between electrolyte cap and MKP cap, which one is closer to the perfect cap characteristic?

Q4. Some of the MKP cap is kept inside a metal can in oil, what is the function of the oil? Compare with the non-oiled MKP, any different?


Thank you for your help.

Tuna Fish
:)
For me is very simple, look the Conrad Jhonson preamp psu. regulated and mkp, and sound great, the film cap is some 100 times very speed to electrolitycs, is better for dynamic, transitory response and all, is not necessary to exchange the same capacyti, only a fraction is ok. scuse mi poor english.cheers.
 
Konnichiwa,





Someone sure made a huge profit there....

Cricklewood Electronics sells rather nice Ducati made Polypropylenen Motor Run Capacitors 50uF/450VAC -
(equates to 630VDC minimum) for $US 12 each (actually 6.50 UK Pound), plus taxes.

Sayonara

Yeah, at the Kutztown radio show last year, a guy was selling a box full of 33uF GE motor runs in oil cans for $5 each. They're going in my 833C amp...about the cheapest thing in there.
 
Use each component where it works best.

I use an Al Electrolytic forthe first cap following the rectifier, and middle stage capacitors in the CLCRC.. whatever filter. Use MKP or MKP w/ oil for the last filter/storage cap that actually feeds the circuitry. This allowes me to use cheaper easily sourced caps designed for switching power supply input filter capacitors for the firststages where they are less critical and save the best caps where they will have the most impact on the audio amplifier stages themselves.

I picked up some Aerovox 50uF 6% 330VAC caps at a Hamfest a couple years ago. The are large and heavy (400gr) and tool stamped "No PCBs" so they are most likely MKP in oil. I'm not going to take one apart to see as I only have 8 left. I bought every one the guy had for $1 ea. I wish he had more.
 
Q1. Compare with Electrolyte Cap, MKP Cap and MKP Cap in Oil, for power supply filtering, which one is better in performance?
Electrolytic

Q2. Since some of the high-end electrolyte cap (e.g. Black Gate, Jensen etc) is very $$$. When it compare with low/mid end MKP Cap (e.g. Solen) used in power supply filtering, which one is better?
Lower cost fully speced industrial Electrolytic

Q3. Theoretical speaking, compare between electrolyte cap and MKP cap, which one is closer to the perfect cap characteristic?
For power supply filtering - electrolytic.

Imho, for power supply noise the main issue is capacitance magnitude, ESR and power supply rectifier and filter layout (which is benefitted from high capacitance/volume). Diode noise is similarly benefitted from better layout and the use of smd ceramics.

The only time I've used MKPs in a power supply for 760VDC rating and low capacitance to keep same as original capacitance spec in an old amp.

Ciao, Tim
 
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Status
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