hi every one, first i'd like to excuse me for my bad english. I want to know if it is possible to build a high gain, heavy metal guitar amp, but with low power, around 10 Watts , i was thinking in a 6l6 single ended output seccion, but i dont know if this choice will give me the sound that i want,
and what about the preamp? should i clone one mesa boogie preamp, or look elsewere? please help me, or recomend somethig, thanks
and what about the preamp? should i clone one mesa boogie preamp, or look elsewere? please help me, or recomend somethig, thanks
Hi,
I've built an el84 pp guitar amp (15W) and its sound very nice ! But a metal sound ... forget it ! It gives u an nice warm destortion but not a metal sound ! I want to get a metal sound in mine to I wonder what sound a reverbe tank gives I think its gonna sound quit heavy with it maybe another ecc on low voltage gives u a metal sound but is a lot fot a little amp like this !
Why not str8 the MESA DUAL RECTEFIER
!
cuz this is the real sound but I konw its a lot of money to built it
so I built a small amp to and now I'm trying things out to get the sound more heavy
maybe some ideas ... reverbe tank ?
Greetz, Lukasz
I've built an el84 pp guitar amp (15W) and its sound very nice ! But a metal sound ... forget it ! It gives u an nice warm destortion but not a metal sound ! I want to get a metal sound in mine to I wonder what sound a reverbe tank gives I think its gonna sound quit heavy with it maybe another ecc on low voltage gives u a metal sound but is a lot fot a little amp like this !
Why not str8 the MESA DUAL RECTEFIER
!cuz this is the real sound but I konw its a lot of money to built it
so I built a small amp to and now I'm trying things out to get the sound more heavy
maybe some ideas ... reverbe tank ?
Greetz, Lukasz
the sound that i'm looking is like the sound of children of bodom, therion, dimmu borgir, opeth and that kind of groups,
i already see the proyects in ax84 and i think that the high octane doesnt sound like i want, so my search continues, thanks for the replies
aaahhh and i dont want to use pedals
i already see the proyects in ax84 and i think that the high octane doesnt sound like i want, so my search continues, thanks for the replies
aaahhh and i dont want to use pedals
In my experience pure tube circuits gives a warm and smooth distortion, more suitable for rock and blues than death metal.
My recepy for high octane metal distortion is diode clippers fed by high gain tube circuits. You can choose between germanium diodes, silicon diodes, zener diodes and LED´s.
I guess you can also try to put some small caps or RC networks across the diodes if you want to tame the harmonics a bit.
By the way, has anyone ever tried tube diodes??
My recepy for high octane metal distortion is diode clippers fed by high gain tube circuits. You can choose between germanium diodes, silicon diodes, zener diodes and LED´s.
I guess you can also try to put some small caps or RC networks across the diodes if you want to tame the harmonics a bit.
By the way, has anyone ever tried tube diodes??
True tube high gain(5150, Bogner etc) is not something that a new DIYer should try and build. It involves several gain stages tied together and each one increases the likelyhood of unwanted noise. It could be best to build a classic gain amp and use a pedel in front. Took me years before I could build a quiet moderate gain amp and I am still working on a super gain design. The layout and ground is absolutely critical in high gain. Each stage amplifies noise as well as the signal and having 4 to 6 gain stages is asking for real trouble if you have little or no experience with high gain circuits.
one idea is to only have one 12ax7 in the pre and one EL84 in the power section,get hold of a boss sd-1 chip and throw it in between the two valves,get them cooking-im not talking about warming them up,i mean seriously roast the things and it sould sound really wrong! do it,it works, old european makes used to do this for studios.
inforce said:
Don't forget the saturation of the output transformer. That contributes to the "Heavy Metal" distortion you are looking for. Try this link for a starting point:
http://www.ax84.com/chihuahua.html
I think you will find that AX84 is a nice site but none of the amps there are super high gain death metal ready killers like a 5150 or even the SLO100.
That said it would be better to build a smaller amp if you do not have much experience. If you do not take my above posted warnings seriously you will be buried in noise and prolly waste a lot of time and money. There is nothing easy about designing or cloning a real high gain amp!!! Anyone tells you different well just build it and see.
The distortion in the 5150 and SLO is mostly preamp. That is why there are so many stages of preamp gain. It is called "cascading stages" The distortion in an Orange amp is mostly poweramp.
I cannot stress this enough, build a simple amp first with a poweramp input to learn the basics and then try a seperate higher gain preamp. With the poweramp input you can experiment till your hearts content on the preamp.
That said it would be better to build a smaller amp if you do not have much experience. If you do not take my above posted warnings seriously you will be buried in noise and prolly waste a lot of time and money. There is nothing easy about designing or cloning a real high gain amp!!! Anyone tells you different well just build it and see.
The distortion in the 5150 and SLO is mostly preamp. That is why there are so many stages of preamp gain. It is called "cascading stages" The distortion in an Orange amp is mostly poweramp.
I cannot stress this enough, build a simple amp first with a poweramp input to learn the basics and then try a seperate higher gain preamp. With the poweramp input you can experiment till your hearts content on the preamp.
Dear InForce,
I think you must decide what will you do with your amp. If you have planned to use only in your home, as a practice amp, go ahead and make some experience building a normal-gain little amp like people at www.ax84.com and then, when you are an experienced builder, modify it. But if you want to play on stage, consider that the real metal sound is made by powerful pickups, a good guitar, preamp distortion, complicate equalization and a little effect (delay or reverb). In general, hi- gain amps are very heavy in output power, because they want power amp distortion and compression, but not a power amp LIMITATION. That's because (not to blame those beautiful minds at ax84) little metal amps (under 30/50W) sound dreadful (IMHO) So you have 3 choices:
1) Buy a decent amp modeller and connect it in a solid state guitar amp. Even professionals do this exclusively. I can tell you hundreds of very heavy bands here in Italy who use the Line6 kind of thing (check their stompboxes... I have seen one really METAL!) And if you need effects, they are all there
2) Build a hi-gain preamp and connect it to a solid state amp; excellent results.
3) If you really want to try, I think you should consider a little EL84 push pull amp, with a hi-gain frontend (sorry, I don't remember the name, see ax84.com)
I hope I have answered your questions.
Keep building, and let the tubes speak for us!
I think you must decide what will you do with your amp. If you have planned to use only in your home, as a practice amp, go ahead and make some experience building a normal-gain little amp like people at www.ax84.com and then, when you are an experienced builder, modify it. But if you want to play on stage, consider that the real metal sound is made by powerful pickups, a good guitar, preamp distortion, complicate equalization and a little effect (delay or reverb). In general, hi- gain amps are very heavy in output power, because they want power amp distortion and compression, but not a power amp LIMITATION. That's because (not to blame those beautiful minds at ax84) little metal amps (under 30/50W) sound dreadful (IMHO) So you have 3 choices:
1) Buy a decent amp modeller and connect it in a solid state guitar amp. Even professionals do this exclusively. I can tell you hundreds of very heavy bands here in Italy who use the Line6 kind of thing (check their stompboxes... I have seen one really METAL!) And if you need effects, they are all there
2) Build a hi-gain preamp and connect it to a solid state amp; excellent results.
3) If you really want to try, I think you should consider a little EL84 push pull amp, with a hi-gain frontend (sorry, I don't remember the name, see ax84.com)
I hope I have answered your questions.
Keep building, and let the tubes speak for us!
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