I guess I'm different, but then I knew that.
I always have joked with people that I learned how to solder before I learned how to walk. I made a lot of projects as a kid on a solder-less breadboard, but I made a lot that were soldered together too. I suppose there is a "benefit" to having a dad who is a electrical and mechanical engineer and who ended up taking care of me most days while my mother worked; I spent the majority of my youth in my dad's shop tinkering. I remember going to kindergarten one day for show and tell showing off some trinkets that I had machined on our lathe and mill along with pictures of me doing it, I would have been about 5 years old. Another time I showed up with an oscilloscope and microphone/interface and most of the day was spent with 5 year olds making all sorts of noises into the mic to see them appear as a waveform on the scope. I was a weird kid.
Gosh, I've only just got that! "impact" brilliant. Just had to say......I know I'm slow....
Not meaning to be rude, but from the pictures in the first post I would assume a different reason for the observed changes in sound quality between several builds of this amp.
The wiring is hanging quite loose, I spot insulating tape and something that suspiciously looks like hot melt glue, and I note the absence of tightly twisted heater lines. The influence of varying coupling between loose wiring and interference from large current loops will easily exceed the influence of solder type.
Regards,
Rundmaus
The wiring is hanging quite loose, I spot insulating tape and something that suspiciously looks like hot melt glue, and I note the absence of tightly twisted heater lines. The influence of varying coupling between loose wiring and interference from large current loops will easily exceed the influence of solder type.
Regards,
Rundmaus
I'm sure occupational health and safety organizations would have a field day though! He started me on plastic and I slowly "graduated" to aluminum, then other metals; start with materials that are very forgiving. There's nothing like taking too large of a bite out of some hard metal with a cutter when you are just learning, then wishing you had worn your brown pants that day! Of course, now all that is just a hobby. All my friends majored in engineering and physics, I became a biologist, they don't let me forget it.
See, that's awesome! I have watched people do that and it just amazes me, it's a skill, or more of an art form, that I don't think I could begin learn. I know for sure at 5 years old I would not have been patent enough to even attempt to do that!
Oh please (and aimed at the person Scottjoplin quoted - not himself);
So, use glue instead of solder, seeing as how solder becomes brittle and creeps; many modern glues can do a much better job of "preserving the mechanical connection".
In my experience 'inert mechanical connections' were mostly done because on construction lines components were mechanically mounted first, each by someone with only one or two components in his/her bin, so that they do not fall out. Then further down the line all was soldered by an experienced 'solderer'.
Yes, solder creeps - when subjected to tension or pressure. Also, failing as a result of 'brittleness' is a function of which kind of solder is used and how; there are correct and wrong ways of soldering. No mechanical connection will deter solder from failing from becoming brittle; the 'elasticity/yield factors' are in the wrong order.
(If this logic of essential mechanical integrity is followed to conclusion, no surface mount construction would be reliable. Also, there is no 'mechanical integrity' in the mounting of components on an afterwards flow-soldered p.c.)
I don't know any glue, that is hard at 120 Celsius degree or more... all at this temperature are like jelly. There are few, that after oven burning for 10 mins at 400 degree are hart to at least 250 degre... and are not better than tin for this job.
But the topic is for sonic influence of the solder/solderless joints...
With milli-Ohm soldered junctions and milli-amp tube currents, one ends up with uV drops. Not much effect on 100 Volt tube signals. (-160 dB ) (Quantum noise maybe, the sound of dark matter bouncing off metal atoms)
Now with just twisted contacts and oxide coated surfaces, one could get rectifying joints. Big effects then. Not to mention crackle - pop effects.
You are more likely to see some minute effects from capacitance differences. Especially if the wires are more round-about routed between big connector assemblies. You might try wiring it all with NO insulation on the wires. That should have some improved dielectric effects for HV tube signals. Won't pass safety tests though.
For twisted connections without solder, I would try tin, copper or silver plating the completed junctions, electrolytically. Make sure the solutions are well washed off afterwards to avoid corrosion.
..
Now with just twisted contacts and oxide coated surfaces, one could get rectifying joints. Big effects then. Not to mention crackle - pop effects.
You are more likely to see some minute effects from capacitance differences. Especially if the wires are more round-about routed between big connector assemblies. You might try wiring it all with NO insulation on the wires. That should have some improved dielectric effects for HV tube signals. Won't pass safety tests though.
For twisted connections without solder, I would try tin, copper or silver plating the completed junctions, electrolytically. Make sure the solutions are well washed off afterwards to avoid corrosion.
..
Last edited:
SMD parts have much smaller mass than through-hole and chassis mounting parts. Therefore forces on the same accelerations are different, and resonant frequencies are.
Did you ever observe units on vibration testing tables? On some frequencies capacitors fall of their leads, on other frequencies legs of resistors broke, then SMD pops up... Just different conditions for different damages.
Also, SMD fall off due to heating/cooling cycles, while properly bent before soldering leads don't. I feel like a sandpaper on a tongue when I see modern "nicely wired" audiophile amps where heavy capacitors just hang on straight thin leads soldered flat to straight wires...
Soviet satellites used SMD, but boards were in epoxy compound, and their mounting was properly engineered according to accelerations and frequencies.
Yes, solder is mechanically quite fragile so only OK for fixing the lightest components. Heavier items need additional help e.g. wrap the wires around the tags. Solder's primary role is to provide a low resistance connection.
Using wires with no insulation will not improve the sound, but it could seriously degrade the sound under certain circumstances.
Using wires with no insulation will not improve the sound, but it could seriously degrade the sound under certain circumstances.
It all comes back to good Soldering practices for leaded components. Make a good mechanical connection and then solder. The solder will then prevent any oxidation of the joint but increase the stress on any wire attached due to vibration as it is most stressed at the interface between the wire and the solder. This is why it is never A good idea to solder crimp connectors, the wire breaks at the solder joint. The point of highest flex. For highest reliability, I'd wrap 3 turns and then solder then wrap 3 more turns. Just my opinion.
Last edited:
Like in old times, just pour molten Beeswax into the chassis to firm things up. Can melt it out again for repairs, if needed.
And for the ultimate in speaker cones, maybe just glue dragonfly wings together.
And whatever happened to silk insulated wire? No self respecting $$$$ amplifier should be without it. Even the phone company used to use that stuff. Old radios too. And pearl in-layed push-buttons. The stuff that passes for luxury products these days is just numerically machined, mass produced, cheap junk.
And for the ultimate in speaker cones, maybe just glue dragonfly wings together.
And whatever happened to silk insulated wire? No self respecting $$$$ amplifier should be without it. Even the phone company used to use that stuff. Old radios too. And pearl in-layed push-buttons. The stuff that passes for luxury products these days is just numerically machined, mass produced, cheap junk.
Last edited:
So I'm fairly new to this audio hobby, or I should say I have jumped in and out of this audio hobby, long time lurker. I'm also fairly young, haven't heard too much, and defiantly don't profess to have golden ears. As in all things electronic I have approached this hobby as an engineer because that's where my background is, that's how I learned electronics. Personally, if a project is leaving my workbench for regular use it's going to be soldered, period.
Are there times or circumstances solder isn't the ideal connection method, sure. Do those times or circumstance generally present themselves when building low to medium current/voltage audio (or electronics) equipment, mmmm, probably not, but I'm still learning. I can honestly say though that when I build projects I'm not thinking about the sonic influence my solder connections may have. I have and will continue to use solder, Ersin multicore solder (or the like) and paste flux specifically, the lead stuff. It's what my dad used when he worked for McDonnell Douglas, the military, and RCA, so it works for me even if it isn't the end all be all sonically. Plus, we have pounds of it sitting around from bulk orders
Just my
since I was one of those who began to drag the thread OT
Well, I've done a lot of both soldering and wire-wrapping in my life, tho' no wire wrapping after computer components became too small to see without a binocular microscope.
I do not agree that wire wrapping would suit an inexperienced person. It's easy to wrap too tight so the last turn on the bottom, where the wire comes onto the post, shears. This leaves an almost hidden defect where only one turn of the wire is made against the post. It's also easy to wrap too loose, so moisture and air infiltrate the juncture of the wire and the post and corrode it. The main advantage to wire-wrapping is that it's fast and easy to redo, and it saw it's heyday in the era of TTL computers. I'd consider it almost an anachronism today...
I agree that good wire-wrapping requires experience. And good wire-wrapping practice is to include the wire insulation in a substantial part of the first turn where the wire meets the post. While wire-wrapping can be done with hand tools, tight, uniform wraps are best made using the correct power tools and wrap bits. I still have some somewhere, although I've probably not used them in over 30 years.
Last edited:
Yes, my comments about wire-wrap is good for inexperienced users was including a proper powertool and wrap bits.
Using simple handwrappers/repair tools IS for the exports!.
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.