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Warning about chokes by Toroidy

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E

ErikdeBest

Member
Joined 2003
Hi all,

A couple of threads here discussed the products by Toroidy, so I went on and ordered some goodies for me as well: PP OPTs and power chokes. To make a long story short - and call me naive - their chokes do not work as advertised.

Toroidal Chokes - Shop Toroidy.pl

I exposed my results to them (I measured the 20H@500mA choke and obtained 1H@150mA), and as reply I got this answer "The choke You have used has 20H during standard procedure measurment at 5VAC. Of course the inductance will drops during DC current flow." They also said that the SE OPTs are of course tested with DC current applied.

They offered cash back and they said they will change the information on their website. I am still discussing the conditions for return with them, but wanted to already post my findings so other members are better informed about their chokes.

Best, the naive Erik
 
hpeter

hpeter

Member
Joined 2013
peteslab.blogspot.com
I asked them time ago about their se toroids, specially the biggest one for 4-125 project.
They didn´t knew what is the optimal dc current for this transformer.. answer was i should try it myself..:RIP:

I wonder how they do the SE and dc chokes, if there is any airgap..:eek:
The PP´s are probably fine, but about others i am not sure
 
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Ufudu

Ufudu

Member
Joined 2015
Erik,

Under what conditions did you make the measurements? Small signal (<1V p-p) will give a significantly lower reading than larger signal (5V) signal conditions due to the non-linear BH curve.

I have measured some Hammond SE OPT's (spec 45H) which at low signals (0.7V) gave me 12H (approx) and at larger signals (40V) gave me 48H

Erwin
 
E

ErikdeBest

Member
Joined 2003
Ufudu said:
Erik,

Under what conditions did you make the measurements? Small signal (<1V p-p) will give a significantly lower reading than larger signal (5V) signal conditions due to the non-linear BH curve.

I have measured some Hammond SE OPT's (spec 45H) which at low signals (0.7V) gave me 12H (approx) and at larger signals (40V) gave me 48H

Erwin
Click to expand...

Hi Ufudu,

In this case I made a small PS with 150mA load, measured ripple at different positions, and played around in PSUD (and by hand) to mimic the measured ripple, so I found out that the choke would do about 1H.

afterwards I applied 40VRMS and no DC on it, and measured about 23H.

Erik
 
M Gregg

M Gregg

Disabled Account
Joined 2010
I use Kaspersky.

Its very good!
I don't like Norton it puts roots down into the registry..I will never use it again tried it over many years!
Don't Like Mcafee either..same reason.
I got attacked with Norton installed it trashed the hard drive and every USB stick plugged into it.
Then I couldn't install any other Antivirus to save the system because Norton blocked it!
I can't remember what the virus was now it was in a trogon and sat silent for about a month until every thing had been plugged in over the time then it struck in about 10 mins. Self replicating! even in Emails. And across networks! It also contained a root kit that damaged Linux.
Never seen anything like it before or since..

I spent quite some time researching how to defend. However its only as good as the last update someone's going to get infected for it to show up!
Sorry off topic!
Back To the chokes!

Regards
M. Gregg
 
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E

ErikdeBest

Member
Joined 2003
M Gregg said:
Erik,

Thank's for posting. :)
That's a shame I thought we might have another possibly OK transformer supplier..however looks like its not to be!

Regards
M.Gregg
Click to expand...

Gregg,

indeed, even not being very confident from the start (it just sounded to good to be true) I was also hoping to be positively surprised - unfortunately it didn't work out like that.

Best, Erik
 
A

AndrewT

R.I.P.
Joined 2004
M Gregg said:
Erik,

Thank's for posting. :)
That's a shame I thought we might have another possibly OK transformer supplier..however looks like its not to be!

Regards
M.Gregg
Click to expand...

Toroidy make really good transformers.

It's the chokes that are being discussed in this Thread.

It looks like the toroid based chokes cannot be made with a gap. That means DC and peak current has a big effect on the inductance.
 
E

esltransformer

Banned
Joined 2010
I don't know what information was before on there site but what i read there now is that it is a AC choke and not a choke mentioned for a power supply where DC is involved.

So maybe the information they gave before was correct but maybe it was not clear enough that you couldn't use it with dc on it.

btw, There are toroids with a gap available to prevent such issues .
 
M Gregg

M Gregg

Disabled Account
Joined 2010
AndrewT said:
Toroidy make really good transformers.

It's the chokes that are being discussed in this Thread.

It looks like the toroid based chokes cannot be made with a gap. That means DC and peak current has a big effect on the inductance.
Click to expand...

I take it that you have used the output transformers?
Both PP and SE..

With a manufacturer once a part of the production is highlighted then it automatically puts the rest of the range into question.
Its the Kudos effect! (buy with confidence?)

Regards
M. Gregg
 
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E

ErikdeBest

Member
Joined 2003
esltransformer said:
I don't know what information was before on there site but what i read there now is that it is a AC choke and not a choke mentioned for a power supply where DC is involved.

So maybe the information they gave before was correct but maybe it was not clear enough that you couldn't use it with dc on it.

btw, There are toroids with a gap available to prevent such issues .
Click to expand...

I didn't save a print screen, but IIRC it was written "Nominal DC current", which now changed to "nominal AC current". And before buying I had extensive email exchange, including schematics were it was clear that the choke would be used in a Power supply, thus DC current.

the information is much better now!
Erik
 
E

ErikdeBest

Member
Joined 2003
M Gregg said:
I take it that you have used the output transformers?
Both PP and SE..

With a manufacturer once a part of the production is highlighted then it automatically puts the rest of the range into question.
Its the Kudos effect! (buy with confidence?)

Regards
M. Gregg
Click to expand...

A friend built an 6C33C amp with Toroidys OPTs, and said he measured -1dB at 7Hz, full power (15W). So indeed, the OPTs appear to manage DC current.

I wrote toroidy suggesting them to make chokes on basis of their sectioned SE OPTs, so to manage both DC current as well as being wideband - and he replied this got him thinking. Well, of course I know to little of transformers to say anything more :)
 
M Gregg

M Gregg

Disabled Account
Joined 2010
ErikdeBest said:
A friend built an 6C33C amp with Toroidys OPTs, and said he measured -1dB at 7Hz, full power (15W). So indeed, the OPTs appear to manage DC current.

I wrote toroidy suggesting them to make chokes on basis of their sectioned SE OPTs, so to manage both DC current as well as being wideband - and he replied this got him thinking. Well, of course I know to little of transformers to say anything more :)
Click to expand...

:)

Erik,

Just out of curiosity,
How do the not so good chokes work as an input first filter after the rectifier where there is rectifier ripple/charge pulses?

Regards
M. Gregg
 
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E

ErikdeBest

Member
Joined 2003
trobbins said:
If you google and look at the cache then I don't see anything about DC current, so based on that it would seem that you were naive.
Click to expand...

Hi, would you be willing to make a Printscreen? I tried and could only get it from the first page, already (half) translated to Dutch. As you can see, there is no mention of AC in the toroidal choke yet, it was added later. Clicking on the product itself does, however, direct to the new website (so if you could manage to get a cached version, that would be nice).

Best, Erik
 

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E

ErikdeBest

Member
Joined 2003
M Gregg said:
:)

Erik,

Just out of curiosity,
How do the not so good chokes work as an input first filter after the rectifier where there is rectifier ripple/charge pulses?

Regards
M. Gregg
Click to expand...

Hi Gregg,

as LC filters are generally harder on the chokes, I started testing with simple CLC filter. Seeing the results, I don't think I will loose any more time with these.

Best, Erik
 
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