Enough freebies have been provided. The time has come to say "cross my palm with silver". 
So let me get this right: it isn't really a Dynaco (as the name has been simply bought by people with no technical or commercial connection with the original firm) and it probably won't really be an ST-70 (as it could have quite a different circuit) but it may be called a "Dynaco ST-70 series iii"? It will still have valves, and an EL34 PP output, and that is sufficient to retain the name?
And how can a new company have a strong reputation?
Personally, I wish we could prohibit brands from being simply bought. Brand names used to mean some continuity in people and hence quality. Now they are simply pieces of empty IP. Curiously, as brands have less and less real meaning they seem to have acquired greater monetary value as a marketing tool. I guess the customers have only themselves to blame for this.
And how can a new company have a strong reputation?
Personally, I wish we could prohibit brands from being simply bought. Brand names used to mean some continuity in people and hence quality. Now they are simply pieces of empty IP. Curiously, as brands have less and less real meaning they seem to have acquired greater monetary value as a marketing tool. I guess the customers have only themselves to blame for this.
Check out this thread on the Dynaco Tube Audio Forum for more information on this Canadian company's attempt to acquire the "Dynaco " trade name ..
Canadian company attempts to acquire Dynaco trade name
Bob Latino
Canadian company attempts to acquire Dynaco trade name
Bob Latino
All I see is one post containing a bad hyperlink.
Really, you're already deeming it as "steal" to quote you? What's the charge? Armed application form filling?
Evidently the Search hyperlink expires after a period of time .. Yes - the links are expired and have been removed from that post ..
Question > If the Dynaco trademark name is already held by ESS Laboratory, INC in Sacramento, CA a division of Marlborough Enterprises, LTD and has been held by them since 1987, then how is it possible for that Canadian company to acquire the Dynaco trade name to sell audio gear ? The poll that was started is IMHO premature because that company still (as yet) does not have the rights to the Dynaco trade name. If they were somehow able to grab the trade name from ESS Laboratorys, it would, IMHO, constitute a "steal" of the trade name.
Bob Latino
Yes, I agree it should be prohibited. My response to the OP would be -
Radial Engineering, which is the alleged company to acquire the Dynaco name is not new. But perhaps, they intend to create a "new" company just to pursue a product line based on the name. Franky, I find the idea as a whole to be completely repugnant. A company with no such "hifi" background wants to capitalize on a famous and successful name brand of the past. Disgusting!!! Design and build your own, with your name on it, then see if you sell it, on it's own merits. So, you have some geezer that got his education in the 60's? So what! No matter who he is, he's no David Hafler, so how the heck do you propose to do "what Hafler would have done"? Nobody knows what Hafler would have done today. Have you been living under a rock - Dynakit Parts already makes duplicates of the original Dynaco amplifiers that are about as close to original as you can get, including the iron, for those who want that. There is a whole cottage industry based around modifications for the ST-70 for those who want to "upgrade". Just what do you propose to do that isn't already available for a fraction of the cost that you'd likely charge? And lets not forget Triode electronics or tubes4hifi that also produce Dynaco clones, and have for years. Sorry, but to me, it looks like you are only trying to "glom on" to the Dynaco name so you can stick it on anything you come up with to use as a marketing tool. I say, just leave it alone. Ok rant over!
Oh, and by the way, if the OP is actually involved with Radial, say hello to Nancy S. for me if she's still there. Tell her that George R. (from Omnex) says hi. We used to work together years ago.
The real problem/issue is that selling a "new" build power amp in the 35w class today at a price point of $1200 per unit is unlikely to sustain a company. It's something one or two guys could pull off in a basement/garage set up, with sufficient $$ to waste/spend on the gamble that they could actually sell enough to make themselves what is a working man's salary for a year.
Figure two guys working for $35kUSD gross = $70kUSD. Now take the cost of the unit at $1200 and make the (unlikely) assumption of 1/5 of price = parts cost, so $250 = parts cost. That leaves $950/sale to cover all business expenses, advertising, costs of doing biz, anything NOT electronic (brochures, catalogs, manuals, boxes, packing materials, etc.). So let's randomly pick another $250. That leaves $700 left. Take away corporate/DBA taxes. So, about $500 now. Meaning that you'd need to sell 150 units just to make a very small salary. And, that is more than 10 units per month.
It's possible, but not so simple, especially since IF you want to do this right you'd need to get all sorts of things "right" before you actually sell a single unit. Like the output iron, you can't just walk in to some random winder and "get an A-470" even with an exemplar they can open up and dissect. Quite a number of iterations usually end up being required - assuming you can test the iron properly urself. You can't get a plated silkscreened punched chassis cheap, and certainly not in small quantities. So there is a boatload of upfront costs and overheads before you even have a prototyped product, and long before you have a production ready product.
If it was easy, everyone would be doing it - with or without the Dynaco name.
And, wait! Yep, there are tons of tube amp manufacturers right now, plus the used market.
But, perhaps if you have some competitive advantages in one or more of these areas, you could make a go of it...
_-_-
Figure two guys working for $35kUSD gross = $70kUSD. Now take the cost of the unit at $1200 and make the (unlikely) assumption of 1/5 of price = parts cost, so $250 = parts cost. That leaves $950/sale to cover all business expenses, advertising, costs of doing biz, anything NOT electronic (brochures, catalogs, manuals, boxes, packing materials, etc.). So let's randomly pick another $250. That leaves $700 left. Take away corporate/DBA taxes. So, about $500 now. Meaning that you'd need to sell 150 units just to make a very small salary. And, that is more than 10 units per month.
It's possible, but not so simple, especially since IF you want to do this right you'd need to get all sorts of things "right" before you actually sell a single unit. Like the output iron, you can't just walk in to some random winder and "get an A-470" even with an exemplar they can open up and dissect. Quite a number of iterations usually end up being required - assuming you can test the iron properly urself. You can't get a plated silkscreened punched chassis cheap, and certainly not in small quantities. So there is a boatload of upfront costs and overheads before you even have a prototyped product, and long before you have a production ready product.
If it was easy, everyone would be doing it - with or without the Dynaco name.
And, wait! Yep, there are tons of tube amp manufacturers right now, plus the used market.
But, perhaps if you have some competitive advantages in one or more of these areas, you could make a go of it...
_-_-
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Not exactly unprecedented (see, for example, tubes labeled Mullard, Genalex, Tung Sol, or Telefunken). Or amps labeled Marantz.
You guys should do a search once in a while.
http://www.cepro.com/article/radial_engineering_relaunches_hafler_amp_brand/
http://www.cepro.com/article/radial_engineering_relaunches_hafler_amp_brand/
Then there is this too, Jensen Transformers:
ChurchProduction.com: Radial Engineering to Acquire Jensen Transformers, Inc.
and this:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/269965-hafler-amps-return.html#post4227990
ChurchProduction.com: Radial Engineering to Acquire Jensen Transformers, Inc.
and this:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/269965-hafler-amps-return.html#post4227990
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So, IOW it is a Marketing plan of proven validity...not that I wouldn't prefer to live in a world where it wasn't so...LOL
I'd also point out that it bothers me that the OP has yet to provide any detail re. 'what Hafler would have done today' with the design.
Given a reason to keep something resembling the original topology, I'd be tempted to install a SS device as the split load element. Then, why not go further; a cascode pair of DN2540 would make a fine stand-in for a pentode. Or...why not go SS all the way, and get rid of the tubes in favour of a cascode pair for each of the finals.....reduce the B+, bias in Class A...and take the circuit from Gary's 47 amps.
cheers,
Douglas
The company has been in correspondence with people that worked with Mr. Hafler back in the day and we have gotten a really good feel for what Hafler would have done with a tube amp design since say 1980.
As others have said, this business would not support a company. The company has already been in business for 25 years and specializes in making the sort of neat things the pro audio industry needs but where the volume is to low for the big guys. The company is doing this, not because it will make a pile of money. They know it will won't but they hope it will break even. They are doing it because they are audio people and it sounds like a neat project. It is only possible as it does not really increase the existing overhead.
As for the old geezer engineer, yes, they have been around for a long time. But they have also done major DSP based projects and a lot of PWM high power amplification. They have products of their design in a lot of high profile installations all over the world. But because they have a lot of tube experience, the company wants to get this project going before they retire.
The company also has one of the finest audio transformer design teams in the world available to them and at this time, they are researching ways to make a much better A470. No, it will not be original but the aftermarket seems to be serving the market well already with product for people who desire the sound quality of the original. It has been considered offering a standard steel lamination transformer and an optional nickel core part. The company has to see how the measurements and listening tests turn out.
At this time the company has been going through other designs by Mr. Hafler that were not built to a price point the way the ST-70 was. Such as having identical drive impedance for the phase splitter. A single triode phase splitter has unequal source impedance and this will introduce unbalanced drive. This will require more bottles but that does not raise the price that much.
The company thanks all who contributed and values continuing contributions from the DIY community.
As others have said, this business would not support a company. The company has already been in business for 25 years and specializes in making the sort of neat things the pro audio industry needs but where the volume is to low for the big guys. The company is doing this, not because it will make a pile of money. They know it will won't but they hope it will break even. They are doing it because they are audio people and it sounds like a neat project. It is only possible as it does not really increase the existing overhead.
As for the old geezer engineer, yes, they have been around for a long time. But they have also done major DSP based projects and a lot of PWM high power amplification. They have products of their design in a lot of high profile installations all over the world. But because they have a lot of tube experience, the company wants to get this project going before they retire.
The company also has one of the finest audio transformer design teams in the world available to them and at this time, they are researching ways to make a much better A470. No, it will not be original but the aftermarket seems to be serving the market well already with product for people who desire the sound quality of the original. It has been considered offering a standard steel lamination transformer and an optional nickel core part. The company has to see how the measurements and listening tests turn out.
At this time the company has been going through other designs by Mr. Hafler that were not built to a price point the way the ST-70 was. Such as having identical drive impedance for the phase splitter. A single triode phase splitter has unequal source impedance and this will introduce unbalanced drive. This will require more bottles but that does not raise the price that much.
The company thanks all who contributed and values continuing contributions from the DIY community.
You might want to consider getting a good designer who doesn't believe myths like that. (see Linear Audio Vol 0 for analysis and data demonstrating)
I think the problem with doing the project/product is that there is a limited margin, and a limit on the price point (related things, but not the same), no matter what design is attempted.
That 7199 circuit contains "predistortion" elements to obtain a nominally "flat" response, I'd not want to duplicate it myself, no would I incorporate it into anything I would build today. So, that is part of the "answer". Right after that, nothing is "original" any longer, no matter what you build.
So, you can do the "look and feel" of an ST-70 at best.
Price?
What, $1200? Is that enough? How many can one sell at that price, given that they are still around used for about half of that? Not to mention the aftermarket chassis and iron suppliers.
To me, a tough product to put out, best case.
A new design, with the "look & feel"?
Maybe, but what is the market for such a thing?
Why do I want to buy one?
What does it do that something else doesn't do?
Perhaps if it represents a good value for the price people would buy it. Perhaps.
I dunno, tough road this one.
That 7199 circuit contains "predistortion" elements to obtain a nominally "flat" response, I'd not want to duplicate it myself, no would I incorporate it into anything I would build today. So, that is part of the "answer". Right after that, nothing is "original" any longer, no matter what you build.
So, you can do the "look and feel" of an ST-70 at best.
Price?
What, $1200? Is that enough? How many can one sell at that price, given that they are still around used for about half of that? Not to mention the aftermarket chassis and iron suppliers.
To me, a tough product to put out, best case.
A new design, with the "look & feel"?
Maybe, but what is the market for such a thing?
Why do I want to buy one?
What does it do that something else doesn't do?
Perhaps if it represents a good value for the price people would buy it. Perhaps.
I dunno, tough road this one.
I would entirely disregard the opinion of so called "diy community " as totally irrelevant. They would never be your customers and have distorted view of market reality. If you really could pull this off , with the price tag directly in competition with Chinese import and capital for long term sustainability and bribes for Stereophile and Absolute Sound editorial staff it could be a hit. I would not worry of second hand and garage/one man business Dyna related outfits. They cater to different (DIY oriented ) clientele and regular shopping folks will not touch it with the barge.
Bear points are valid only for small operation, small capital business plan.
Regarding original st-70 clunker out of 3 I had the subjectively worst performing unit was the one fully upgraded with new driver boards and SDS cap bank . The best one was original board with some additional caps hacked by local guru . It looked like shiit but the sound was magical, ficking Shindo for the paupers...Use the fancy stuff ONLY if you can get marketing advantage. Look what's inside the french amps like Audiomat or Jadis to steer you on the right path. Get a snobbish dyck with golden ears and charisma to supervise over all engineering staff and have a deciding voice. Good Luck !, I know many people waiting for truly affordable , reliable tube amp from respected North American company .
Bear points are valid only for small operation, small capital business plan.
Regarding original st-70 clunker out of 3 I had the subjectively worst performing unit was the one fully upgraded with new driver boards and SDS cap bank . The best one was original board with some additional caps hacked by local guru . It looked like shiit but the sound was magical, ficking Shindo for the paupers...Use the fancy stuff ONLY if you can get marketing advantage. Look what's inside the french amps like Audiomat or Jadis to steer you on the right path. Get a snobbish dyck with golden ears and charisma to supervise over all engineering staff and have a deciding voice. Good Luck !, I know many people waiting for truly affordable , reliable tube amp from respected North American company .
The exact old look will not be possible as there is no way the original ST70 would ever have passed electrical safety rules, even back in the day. Hafler got around this by selling kits. Where the lowest cost part was the buyer's time. In this day and age, we have to have electrical certification for the product, which will mean the enclosure has to be somewhat more secure with possible a safety interlock on the cover over the tubes. Right now I am examining various drive topologies and favoring topology based on work that Hafler did but never used on Dynaco offerings. I believe the reason was cost as the more advanced configuration requires 4 tubes on the driver board instead of 2. But these will be current production parts. With the investment required for electrical safety certifications, we cannot go into production based on NOS parts. I am thinking of having 4 bias trim pots, each with their own LEDs for setting them which will make the use of matched pairs a little less critical.
We will not be converting the ST70 to solid state. We are designing separate solid state amplifiers to sell under the Hafler brand using the Trans-Nova technology.
We will not be converting the ST70 to solid state. We are designing separate solid state amplifiers to sell under the Hafler brand using the Trans-Nova technology.
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