Affordable "starter" SE amp
If I didn't already have a bunch of projects on my bench, I'd want to spend the money to try this one out:
http://www.handwoundtransformers.com/kit.html
Two channels of iron = $280. Add that to a pair of Electro-Harmonix 300B bulk matched tubes for $110 from:
http://www.partsconnexion.com/catalog/NewTubes.html
Cha-chig! A pair of 300B SE monoblocks for $500.
Has anyone tried it out yet? Cheap trannies, cheap tubes, but for a mighty cheap price. You can easily make something that sounds better (plitron OPT) but I bet this is best sounding $500 possible.
If I didn't already have a bunch of projects on my bench, I'd want to spend the money to try this one out:
http://www.handwoundtransformers.com/kit.html
Two channels of iron = $280. Add that to a pair of Electro-Harmonix 300B bulk matched tubes for $110 from:
http://www.partsconnexion.com/catalog/NewTubes.html
Cha-chig! A pair of 300B SE monoblocks for $500.
Has anyone tried it out yet? Cheap trannies, cheap tubes, but for a mighty cheap price. You can easily make something that sounds better (plitron OPT) but I bet this is best sounding $500 possible.
Transformers
I'd suggest you do a search on Handwound transformers on before making any decisions. There have been some long threads on AudioAsylum for example. My own experiences have been long shipping delays, very long delay in getting replacement of defective products and mediocre sonics.
If you're looking for inexpensive, go with Hammond. The 125ESE is surprisingly nice at low currents and VERY inexpensive. The One-Electron line is also reasonably priced.
If you can spring for a bit more look at Magnequest or Electraprint. Frankly I don't think that the transformers are the place to save money. At the very least, they don't wear out and can almost always be resold at almost what you've paid for them.
- Gary
http://www.the-planet.org
I'd suggest you do a search on Handwound transformers on before making any decisions. There have been some long threads on AudioAsylum for example. My own experiences have been long shipping delays, very long delay in getting replacement of defective products and mediocre sonics.
If you're looking for inexpensive, go with Hammond. The 125ESE is surprisingly nice at low currents and VERY inexpensive. The One-Electron line is also reasonably priced.
If you can spring for a bit more look at Magnequest or Electraprint. Frankly I don't think that the transformers are the place to save money. At the very least, they don't wear out and can almost always be resold at almost what you've paid for them.
- Gary
http://www.the-planet.org
Starter SET
I'd recommend a pair of Paramour's from Bottlehead.
I recently assembled a pair for someone, and although the cosmetics were poor, the sound was surprisingly good.
In some respects these are the cleverest of designs: the components are regular (cheap) grade, but their implementation is clever, and produces results that exceed expectations.
Alternatively do a full diy of their design, and source your own components.
I'd recommend a pair of Paramour's from Bottlehead.
I recently assembled a pair for someone, and although the cosmetics were poor, the sound was surprisingly good.
In some respects these are the cleverest of designs: the components are regular (cheap) grade, but their implementation is clever, and produces results that exceed expectations.
Alternatively do a full diy of their design, and source your own components.
I don't debate the OPT thread. I am a believer in good OPT iron.
I adhere to the theory to buy a set of very good iron, and then build DIY projects around it. I expect to put at least a dozen designs around my new Plitron 1040CFB push-pull transformers and LL1660S interstage. These are incredibly versatile transformers, able to accommodate numerous design philosophies. I can't wait to compare triode/UL/pentode connection, cathode feedback or not, different single-ended line stage with phase-splitter transformer, KT88 vs. KT90, et. With $1000 invested in transformers, I'll be giving each one of the design philosophies a fair chance.
However, it took a lay-down of cash to bring home the expensive iron. Something a noob probably won't be interested in doing.
The purpose of this thread was to promote entry-level complexity and prices, while providing great sonics to the novice. If the package sounds good, I've got some novice friends who could be enticed into trying it.
Honestly, I haven't built a 300B amp. When I do, I'll probably use Lundahl. The Lundahl SE OPT has very interesting winding topology, allowing the eventual use of the same transformer for cathode-coupled designs (for 300Bs) and/or ultra-linear designs (for pentodes). If I wasn't interested in using CFB or UL taps, I'd go straight for Plitron or Magnaquest.
However, for $500, I could play with a 300B for awhile, and probably sell it to a friends, who would end up wanting a couple more channels.
The most exciting aspect of a 300B amp for $500 is I could compare it to cost-comparable options, such as the Pass Labs Zen 4. It would be a $500 shootout. Can single-ended solid state sound as good as tubes dollar-for-dollar?
I doubt it you can tell me, unless you've built the amps and tried 'em out.
I adhere to the theory to buy a set of very good iron, and then build DIY projects around it. I expect to put at least a dozen designs around my new Plitron 1040CFB push-pull transformers and LL1660S interstage. These are incredibly versatile transformers, able to accommodate numerous design philosophies. I can't wait to compare triode/UL/pentode connection, cathode feedback or not, different single-ended line stage with phase-splitter transformer, KT88 vs. KT90, et. With $1000 invested in transformers, I'll be giving each one of the design philosophies a fair chance.
However, it took a lay-down of cash to bring home the expensive iron. Something a noob probably won't be interested in doing.
The purpose of this thread was to promote entry-level complexity and prices, while providing great sonics to the novice. If the package sounds good, I've got some novice friends who could be enticed into trying it.
Honestly, I haven't built a 300B amp. When I do, I'll probably use Lundahl. The Lundahl SE OPT has very interesting winding topology, allowing the eventual use of the same transformer for cathode-coupled designs (for 300Bs) and/or ultra-linear designs (for pentodes). If I wasn't interested in using CFB or UL taps, I'd go straight for Plitron or Magnaquest.
However, for $500, I could play with a 300B for awhile, and probably sell it to a friends, who would end up wanting a couple more channels.
The most exciting aspect of a 300B amp for $500 is I could compare it to cost-comparable options, such as the Pass Labs Zen 4. It would be a $500 shootout. Can single-ended solid state sound as good as tubes dollar-for-dollar?
I doubt it you can tell me, unless you've built the amps and tried 'em out.
Depends how much of a DIYer you are. If you are confident with circuit design, chassis building etc. you could get some vintage PP iron and design your own parafeed SET with 2A3s.
If you are more inclined towards a kit, then there are plenty to choose from, including the ultra cheap ASL wave 8... http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/0302/aslwave8.htm
Personally I would love to get a pair of expensive SE trannies and design my perfect SE amp, but they are megabucks and I have bills to pay!
PP amps are a step up to build- I would say a PP amp would be easily twice as difficult to build, and therefore not too good for the DIYer...
If you are more inclined towards a kit, then there are plenty to choose from, including the ultra cheap ASL wave 8... http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/0302/aslwave8.htm
Personally I would love to get a pair of expensive SE trannies and design my perfect SE amp, but they are megabucks and I have bills to pay!
PP amps are a step up to build- I would say a PP amp would be easily twice as difficult to build, and therefore not too good for the DIYer...
Transformers
Kashmire -
I appreciate that $280 for a 300b partial kit is very attractive. I'm just "hinting" that this may be a bad bargain.
I have a pair of the 3K Handwound SE transformers, so I am speaking out of some experience. I had another pair initially, and found they had <<1H inductance on the primary. They also sounded horrid. After many months of emails back and forth, excuses, and delays I finally got this pair in exchange. While much better than the original pair they still don't come close to what else is on the market sonically.
If anyone really wants a pair of the Handwound 3K transformers email me and we can work something out. At least you'll get them shipped promptly
Heck, just my experience...
Kashmire -
I appreciate that $280 for a 300b partial kit is very attractive. I'm just "hinting" that this may be a bad bargain.
I have a pair of the 3K Handwound SE transformers, so I am speaking out of some experience. I had another pair initially, and found they had <<1H inductance on the primary. They also sounded horrid. After many months of emails back and forth, excuses, and delays I finally got this pair in exchange. While much better than the original pair they still don't come close to what else is on the market sonically.
If anyone really wants a pair of the Handwound 3K transformers email me and we can work something out. At least you'll get them shipped promptly
Heck, just my experience...
Now that's more like it!
Here are the learnings:
1) The company Handwound Transformers may not have the best reputation.
2) Noobs should stick with SE because of simplicity.
3) Hammond is the first-timer's best choice - more affordable, and good sounding.
4) A stereo 300B amp, even for a novice, will likely cost over $500 if they use hammond parts. Better to spend a couple more bucks than to get bad/unreliable parts and ruin the whole experience.
5) Kit amps are a good alternative to first-time amp builders, and there are kit amps at reasonable prices.
As a side note, I've wound magnetic cores before, but never cores that require continuous DC current (bias). I wouldn't sweat winding a push-pull OPT, but I'm dubious about a SE OPT.
You guys have success at winding air-gapped cores? I haven't tried, so I can't speak out of experience.
Here are the learnings:
1) The company Handwound Transformers may not have the best reputation.
2) Noobs should stick with SE because of simplicity.
3) Hammond is the first-timer's best choice - more affordable, and good sounding.
4) A stereo 300B amp, even for a novice, will likely cost over $500 if they use hammond parts. Better to spend a couple more bucks than to get bad/unreliable parts and ruin the whole experience.
5) Kit amps are a good alternative to first-time amp builders, and there are kit amps at reasonable prices.
As a side note, I've wound magnetic cores before, but never cores that require continuous DC current (bias). I wouldn't sweat winding a push-pull OPT, but I'm dubious about a SE OPT.
You guys have success at winding air-gapped cores? I haven't tried, so I can't speak out of experience.
Kashmire said:
No. Like everything it depends on what you build. To get decent performance out of SETs (and just because it's a SET doesn't automatically mean better performance, nor even good performance) you will trade complexity in the circuit for extreme sensitivity to the power supply, and also heaters with DHT's.
Absolutely true, SETs are a bugger to get sounding decent, but they are easy (ish) to get working. Upgrades can come later. I am still trying to get my 6B4 SET sounding as good as my PP807...
(OT: I think i have nailed it, 1/2 a 6SL7 actually sounds pretty decent as a driver, after trying ^SL7 SRPP and 1/2 a 6SN7. I think the caps are next, heard good things about dayton fim & foils...)However, PP amps take a long time to build, and usually sound pretty good after some tweaking. Another good option for a n00b is to rebuild a vintage PP amp. Thats what I did, it was pretty good fun.
ShiFtY said:
No argument, but most SETs sound pretty average unless optimised (and still not as good as a well developed PP IMNSHO)
Not so sure about taking longer to build, if you think about layout carefully before you start. But that should be so for any amp.
If you can't rebuild a vintage, you can certainly clone it.
I happen to agree....
The "weak-link" in any well designed amp will be the iron, either interstage or output.
I can take the exact same $100 collection of parts - tubes, caps, chokes - and it all depends on the OPT if it will sound good. Average OPTs will make average sound.
Great trannys are expensive. I like the theory that you buy really good "core" parts, such as OPTs and interstages, and then you can DIY a million circuits around 'em.
The cost happens once, but it gives you a good foundation to test all sorts of designs.
My Plitrons are for push-pull. I don't have "good" SE trannys right now. I've got too many projects going to do an SE design at the present .... maybe later ....
The "weak-link" in any well designed amp will be the iron, either interstage or output.
I can take the exact same $100 collection of parts - tubes, caps, chokes - and it all depends on the OPT if it will sound good. Average OPTs will make average sound.
Great trannys are expensive. I like the theory that you buy really good "core" parts, such as OPTs and interstages, and then you can DIY a million circuits around 'em.
The cost happens once, but it gives you a good foundation to test all sorts of designs.
My Plitrons are for push-pull. I don't have "good" SE trannys right now. I've got too many projects going to do an SE design at the present .... maybe later ....
kit amps
Recall, the handwound transformer deal also includes the power tranny along with the choke and output.
I agree, so many options, but I was exploring the idea of getting a 300B amp built for less than $500. That means the stereo pair of SE OPT, power transformers, and chokes would need to cost less than $300.
That narrows down the options quite a bit, but there's still options out there. As it has been pointed out, there's some good kit amps that I need to recommened to my aspiring DIY friends.
Recall, the handwound transformer deal also includes the power tranny along with the choke and output.
I agree, so many options, but I was exploring the idea of getting a 300B amp built for less than $500. That means the stereo pair of SE OPT, power transformers, and chokes would need to cost less than $300.
That narrows down the options quite a bit, but there's still options out there. As it has been pointed out, there's some good kit amps that I need to recommened to my aspiring DIY friends.
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