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Vacuum Tube SPICE Models
Vacuum Tube SPICE Models
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Old 22nd December 2013, 09:54 AM   #121
RajkoM is offline RajkoM  Bosnia and Herzegovina
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I do not. Philips did not give it.
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Old 22nd December 2013, 11:45 AM   #122
jazbo8 is offline jazbo8
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Vacuum Tube SPICE Models
Default Philips 18040 Model

I used 18046's triode data and fudged it to fit 18040's curves, and the SPICE model is shown below, please test it. 18040's datasheet indicates that the maximum Vg1 is -1.3V, perhaps that's why the 0V and -1V curves were not fully visible.

Code:
*
* Generic pentode model: 18040_AN
* Copyright 2003-2008 by Ayumi Nakabayashi, All rights reserved.
* Version 3.10, Generated on Sun Dec 22 12:36:57 2013
*                Plate
*                | Screen Grid
*                | |  Control Grid
*                | |  |  Cathode
*                | |  |  |
.SUBCKT 18040_AN A G2 G1 K
BGG   GG   0 V=V(G1,K)+-0.083801857
BM1   M1   0 V=(0.0081798859*(LIMIT(V(G2,K),0,1e16)+1e-10))**-0.49067171
BM2   M2   0 V=(0.7535145*(LIMIT(V(GG)+LIMIT(V(G2,K),0,1e16)/30.133122,0,1e16)))**1.9906717
BP    P    0 V=0.0067112265*(LIMIT(V(GG)+LIMIT(V(G2,K),0,1e16)/39.990102,0,1e16))**1.5
BIK   IK   0 V=IF(V(GG)>0,1,0)*V(P)+(1-IF(V(GG)>0,1,0))*0.003878634*V(M1)*V(M2)
BIG   IG   0 V=0.0033556133*LIMIT(V(G1,K),0,1e16)**1.5*(LIMIT(V(G1,K),0,1e16)/(LIMIT(V(A,K),0,1e16)+LIMIT(V(G1,K),0,1e16))*1.2+0.4)
BIK2  IK2  0 V=V(IK,IG)*(1-0.4*(EXP(-LIMIT(V(A,K),0,1e16)/LIMIT(V(G2,K),0,1e16)*15)-EXP(-15)))
BIG2T IG2T 0 V=V(IK2)*(0.78812548*(1-LIMIT(V(A,K),0,1e16)/(LIMIT(V(A,K),0,1e16)+10))**1.5+0.21187452)
BIK3  IK3  0 V=V(IK2)*(LIMIT(V(A,K),0,1e16)+15630)/(LIMIT(V(G2,K),0,1e16)+15630)
BIK4  IK4  0 V=V(IK3)-LIMIT(V(IK3)-(0.0036089138*(LIMIT(V(A,K),0,1e16)+LIMIT(V(G2,K),0,1e16)-LIMIT(V(A,K),0,1e16))**1.5),0,1e16)
BIP   IP   0 V=LIMIT(V(IK4,IG2T)-LIMIT(V(IK4,IG2T)-(0.0036089138*LIMIT(V(A,K),0,1e16)**1.5),0,1e16),0,1e16)
BIAK  A    K I=V(IP)+1e-10*V(A,K)
BIG2  G2   K I=LIMIT(V(IK4,IP),0,1e16)
BIGK  G1   K I=V(IG)
* CAPS
CGA   G1  A  0.02p
CGK   G1  K  9p
C12   G1  G2 6p
CAK   A   K  7.5p
.ENDS
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Old 22nd December 2013, 12:57 PM   #123
RajkoM is offline RajkoM  Bosnia and Herzegovina
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Great jazbo8. Thank you very much, I appreciate it.
I saw before triode characteristics of 18046 and considering the very similar data with 18040. I presumed that they could be taken into account.
Thanks again.

Best diying.
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Old 22nd December 2013, 04:07 PM   #124
popilin is offline popilin  Argentina
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When I had all the answers, they changed me the questions...

Ayumi Nakabayashi models are very accurate, I could check through the average plate characteristic curves, and average transfer caracteristics curves.
However, in simulations, distortion is 10 dB greater than with Norman Koren models.

To remove doubt, I simulated the circuit proposed by Morgan Jones, again with Norman Koren models the results are consistent (+ - 1 dB) while with Ayumi Nakabayashi models, distortion is always about 10 dB higher.

The million dollar question is: if the valves are defined by their curves, why with more precise curves less accurate results are obtained?
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Old 22nd December 2013, 05:20 PM   #125
jazbo8 is offline jazbo8
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Vacuum Tube SPICE Models
@Rajkom - You are welcome, hope it is close enough for simulation purpose.

@popilin - Which models did you use? Perhaps we can doubt check the results, 10dB difference seems a bit excessive...
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Old 22nd December 2013, 05:41 PM   #126
popilin is offline popilin  Argentina
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Yesterday I tried 5687, 6CG7, 6SN7...all the same, 10 dB greater THD.

Thanks.
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Old 22nd December 2013, 05:50 PM   #127
jazbo8 is offline jazbo8
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So 10dB more distortion vs. actual circuit measurements? Could you please post the schematics or links if possible?
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Old 22nd December 2013, 06:40 PM   #128
kevinkr is offline kevinkr  United States
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Vacuum Tube SPICE Models
I'd be happy to curve trace some in both pentode and triode connection, but have none just yet. (It's a new type to me) I just purchased 4 on eBay out of curiosity, and I will test them and post the results here once I get them.
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Old 22nd December 2013, 06:48 PM   #129
kevinkr is offline kevinkr  United States
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Vacuum Tube SPICE Models
Quote:
Originally Posted by popilin View Post
<snip>
The million dollar question is: if the valves are defined by their curves, why with more precise curves less accurate results are obtained?
Did you actually measure any of the tubes in the circuit you based the simulations on?

I typically measure at least 10dB more distortion in an actual circuit than in a simulation using the Koren models. (My latest phono stage design shows this clearly) Could it be that the Ayumi models are getting closer to the truth?

The tools I use to generate models are all based on the Koren equations. (paint_kip, paint_kit, and the uTracer alternate gui) Eventually I will learn the Ayumi method and see how that works.
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Old 22nd December 2013, 06:51 PM   #130
popilin is offline popilin  Argentina
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