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Old 30th April 2013, 04:44 AM   #1
tcqanh is offline tcqanh  Viet Nam
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Default Problem with CCS for filaments

I'm trying on CCS for filament. Below is my simple schematic. I've got problem that I can hear vibration noise at quite high level in first 25-30 seconds. Filament voltage increases step by step. When Vout reaches 2-3Vdc, that noise dissapears. I guess filament string shaking a lot in early periode. Those noises are only for directed heater tubes (2E22, 6B4G, 300B are my cases), not for indirected heater tubes(ex. 6L6, 6550)

I have some questions :

What is the cause and how to treat it ?

Does that phenomenon impact in filaments quality of directed heater tube, also tube quality too ?

Thank you,

QA.
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File Type: png Filament with CCS.png (10.3 KB, 325 views)

Last edited by tcqanh; 30th April 2013 at 04:49 AM.
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Old 30th April 2013, 04:56 AM   #2
GoatGuy is offline GoatGuy  United States
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(1) Are all tubes being heated by ONE constant-current source? (if YES, then this is an error. It is very unwise to do... as it can force current into tubes that heat up at different rates unequally)

(2) The direct-heated tubes are designed to have a higher inrush current, and to heat rather signficantly faster than a constant-current source will supply. This causes much slower heating, so all thermal expansion (that normally might take a couple seconds) is stretched out over 20+ seconds.

(3) After its all good and 'warmed up', is the final output voltage where the manufacturer spec wants it to be?. Reason... constant current sources are well known for either under, or over-voltage driving tubes of slightly different conduction. Tubes are specified with precise filament voltages, and no guarantees are made for amperage. j

In short, since you have a nice regulator there, why not put it in voltage-regulation mode, and let it do its job per the manufacturer spec? I think it makes a whole lot more sense. Further, you can install a small potentiometer to let it be variable voltage, between 20% of the center-position set to "nominal".

GoatGuy
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Old 30th April 2013, 05:53 AM   #3
tcqanh is offline tcqanh  Viet Nam
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoatGuy View Post
(1) Are all tubes being heated by ONE constant-current source? (if YES, then this is an error. It is very unwise to do... as it can force current into tubes that heat up at different rates unequally)
As you see my schema, power transformer and Rconstant source was adjusted depending on kind of tube.

Quote:
(2) The direct-heated tubes are designed to have a higher inrush current, and to heat rather signficantly faster than a constant-current source will supply. This causes much slower heating, so all thermal expansion (that normally might take a couple seconds) is stretched out over 20+ seconds.
I'm concerning 2 issues above and waiting for the answer

Quote:
In short, since you have a nice regulator there, why not put it in voltage-regulation mode, and let it do its job per the manufacturer spec? I think it makes a whole lot more sense. Further, you can install a small potentiometer to let it be variable voltage, between 20% of the center-position set to "nominal".
I did regulator voltage plus 1 choke as current source for my 71A tube and I did regu voltage schemas for indirected tube in my phono tube preampli. This manner is so easy. But filament current source choke is very hard to power tube... cause of very big volume (high current) . So I choose another plan.

CCS plays isolation filaments and PSU, so you get much better sound.
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Old 30th April 2013, 08:21 AM   #4
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Frankly I'd use Rod Coleman's regulators - much better than LM1084. The LM1084 works, and I've used it a lot, but it can have some hiss in the sound. Looking at your schematic I'm wondering if you've connected it correctly. Pin 3 is input. The resistor goes between pins 1 and 2 and the output is from pin 1 Adjust. It sounds better in current mode for filaments. But it's not in the same world as Rod's regulators.

Last edited by andyjevans; 30th April 2013 at 08:24 AM.
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Old 30th April 2013, 09:08 AM   #5
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If your question is about the mechanical noise then yes, many directly heated tubes (and some indirectly heated ones) will make mechanical tings and poings as the tube structure heats up and moves. Some do it not at all and others do it a lot. If the B+ is on and the circuit functioning as the filament heats then you'll hear it from the speakers. I've never considered it to be a problem except with a couple of tubes I had that went on and on . . . . . . . .and . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .on.

I've had circuit noise troubles with the LT108_ a few times but they were caused by oscillation and were taken care of by compensating the pins with capacitors as described in the data sheet.
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Old 2nd May 2013, 01:49 AM   #6
tcqanh is offline tcqanh  Viet Nam
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andyjevans View Post
Frankly I'd use Rod Coleman's regulators - much better than LM1084. The LM1084 works, and I've used it a lot, but it can have some hiss in the sound. Looking at your schematic I'm wondering if you've connected it correctly. Pin 3 is input. The resistor goes between pins 1 and 2 and the output is from pin 1 Adjust. It sounds better in current mode for filaments. But it's not in the same world as Rod's regulators.
I'm correct on connecting LT1084 pins

I've heard noise from tube inside by using CCS above (without B+ supply) . But these noises don't exist when I use AC heater or DC heater with CRC filtering for the same tube. Noise is so loud that I can hear 2 meters away.
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Old 7th May 2013, 07:06 PM   #7
Green77 is offline Green77  Sweden
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Hi
Does this heater work well? I'm about to build one like this one to my 300b se..
Do you think it sound better then with a regulated 5v dc?
Regards //Daniel
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Old 7th May 2013, 07:19 PM   #8
hpeter is offline hpeter  Europe
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during heat up/cool down period metalic noises can be heard. depends on mechanical (build) quality of tube
filament changes temperature and lenght significantly
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Old 7th May 2013, 10:12 PM   #9
tomchr is offline tomchr  United States
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The noise is likely caused by the current limiting of the LT1084. It's pretty harmless...

~Tom
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Old 8th May 2013, 02:41 AM   #10
tcqanh is offline tcqanh  Viet Nam
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hpeter View Post
during heat up/cool down period metalic noises can be heard. depends on mechanical (build) quality of tube
filament changes temperature and lenght significantly
But I can not hear any noise from those tubes when they are heated by AC power

Does anyone have the same situation like me ?

I will try this one on pre DHT, like 26, 71A or 4P1L....
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