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-   -   Troughline, Stereo 20, Technics 1200.Unhappy! (http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/tubes-valves/231948-troughline-stereo-20-technics-1200-unhappy.html)

bullpeters 13th March 2013 06:58 AM

Troughline, Stereo 20, Technics 1200.Unhappy!
 
OK,I have a Technics 1200 with an Ortofon red cart, Homemade valve Riaa Preamp, Digital Ipod source and a leak Troughline iii. Through a Leak Stereo 20 with ALL new high end components and KEF speakers (the race track woofer ones)
My problem, the sources sound good in the reverse order i have listed them.
The Radio sounds awesome. full, rich warm and well balanced
The IPOD isnt to bad either, bit "plastic" but nice
The turntable sounds like there is a bit missing. Especially in the bottom end. I cant explain it better than it doesnt sound "Live" like the others do.Especially the radio,which is baffling as its pretty old school.
Whats the deal? It should be the other way round!
Before you reply. I have accurate RIAA. I have even tried compensating for my taste
My wife has good ears (much better than mine). She agrees
Please dont just knock the 1200, its well set up.
I wish i could listen to something to compare my vinyl setup. I really love the vinyl "Thing" and have huge collection, but reality can only be ignored for so long
about to cry......

picowallspeaker 13th March 2013 07:15 AM

yeah, I've been listening Schostakovic N.4 Symphony from the radio yesterday, great composition!
You wanna know the system ? Sharp lo-fi combo stripped down, just the radio, electronic volume( horrorful tone presets off ! )and 36 V ( it was 26 :D ) chip amp with old Philips output caps .
The speakers, which I usually suspend, are the new generation 15"+6"+1"+0,75" CD+horn, all OB , frameless with acoustical dampening on the rear .
Sounds horrible :joker:

bullpeters 13th March 2013 07:34 AM

but why does the turntable sound "thin". With the radio, its like I am in the hall. With the vinyl it sounds like you went to the hall, recorded it on your phone, and played it to me!

picowallspeaker 13th March 2013 08:00 AM

I have a 1972 Micro TT which weights 20 Kg ! ( 711 I think...the model)
As I told you, I stripped down the Sharp combo...why ? because i hate plastic!
It stinks! I can live with the one surrounding the caps, thou :o
Also because of the strange resonances that plastic brings...
But...it's the system!
Before complaining, you should make a comparison with something asreference. It could be a cheap integrated amp with IC based phono.

The usual suspects are the old circuitations that usually cut below 100 Hz.

ErikdeBest 13th March 2013 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by picowallspeaker (Post 3408559)
yeah, I've been listening Schostakovic N.4 Symphony from the radio yesterday, great composition!
You wanna know the system ? Sharp lo-fi combo stripped down, just the radio, electronic volume( horrorful tone presets off ! )and 36 V ( it was 26 :D ) chip amp with old Philips output caps .
The speakers, which I usually suspend, are the new generation 15"+6"+1"+0,75" CD+horn, all OB , frameless with acoustical dampening on the rear .
Sounds horrible :joker:

I know it is OT, but do you have a picture of these speakers somewhere?

many thanks, Erik

picowallspeaker 13th March 2013 09:25 AM

Done!
:)
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi...ml#post3408646

andyjevans 13th March 2013 10:05 AM

Hello Bullpeters!

I too once used a Stereo 20 at the heart of my system, plus a Troughline, plus a Technics SP10 and I even had those KEF speakers at one point. So I feel for you, and I've been there. The difference was, that was in the 1970s. A LOT of upgrades came after that, so think positively and look forward to making your system better. First thing - you're proud of the RIAA stage you built, and rightly so. I remember building my first RIAA stage, the "Last PAS" Dynaco type. I was chuffed to bits and ran the heaters off a car battery. But you may have to be brutal about upgrading. In theory you could upgrade everything, so nothing's sacred. Use your skills to make some positive changes.

Where to start? The amp and speakers sound good with the Troughline so leave those for now, though I could go on at length about modding a Stereo 20. The results you're getting point to the RIAA stage plus turntable. I'm not an expert in these things, so I'll leave those to others.

What I will pick up on is the digital input. I sold my entire record collection (2,500+) and went digital and I'm happy with it. You could improve this a LOT for not much money. I keep ALL my source material on my Mac Mini computer, which allows me to switch between the Internet and iTunes at will. I use Audirvana+ as software, and this is by far the best. I've tried Pure Music and Amarra and done several A-B comparisons. I use a Mac so if you use a PC you need an equivalent programme. Audirvana+ is cheap enough and I can't recommend it enough. You then need a good DAC. Plenty to choose from, and a popular one these days is the O-DAC. It runs off USB
JDS Labs - ODAC (ObjectiveDAC)

This should hugely improve your digital front end. You will also need to be using a lossless format like AIFF or FLAC. You won't get far into high-fi with mp3.

That would be a start, and should give you something as good as your Troughline.

picowallspeaker 13th March 2013 10:29 AM

'Doctor, I have an headache'
'OUCH! Why did you kick me on my knee? It hurts!'
'Now the headache is secondary, right ?' :rolleyes:
:p

bullpeters 13th March 2013 10:54 AM

ANDYJEVANS,thanks. some input. Thanks
Building the morgan jones Bevoius Valley amp with parralell el84. Hoping to get some more power. I have also thought about the Mini Mac option. I am not against digital music, but my main question is
Why is my Vinyl setup so disapointing? U couldnt get the pre amp for less than 1500 bucks! Its the ducks nuts. The TT is solid, The cart has been positively reviewed but its not making me happy. anyone? beuller? beuller?

andyjevans 13th March 2013 11:10 AM

Could you post the schematic for the RIAA stage? That would allow the gurus to guess at what might be happening.


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