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Old 4th February 2013, 08:06 PM   #1
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Default 12bh7 in place of ecc82

Hi to Everyone !

My long term project would be to build a very minimalist line buffer/driver to use, with a pot in front of it, as a line stage (no voltage gain required)
Reading on web I see that many well received tube power amps has a 12bh7 as driver of the power stage.
I understand is a very powerful tube and I guess also nice sounding
I am very bad at building circuit and I would buy a kit
I see a lot of kit for the ecc82
Can I put a 12bh7 at the place of a ecc82 without big problem ?
As I said I need just a nice line driver, no voltage gain required at all
Thanks and kind regards,
gino
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Old 4th February 2013, 08:31 PM   #2
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I've read lots of positive remarks from posters swapping 12BH7 for 12AU7/ECC82. Just be aware that the 12BH7 draws more heater current than a 12AU7, 0.6 amps @6.3v versus 0.3 amps @6.3v for the 12AU7.

jeff

http://www.mif.pg.gda.pl/homepages/f...3/1/12AU7A.pdf

http://www.mif.pg.gda.pl/homepages/f...3/1/12BH7A.pdf

Last edited by vinylkid58; 4th February 2013 at 08:35 PM.
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Old 4th February 2013, 08:51 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vinylkid58 View Post
I've read lots of positive remarks from posters swapping 12BH7 for 12AU7/ECC82.
Just be aware that the 12BH7 draws more heater current than a 12AU7, 0.6 amps @6.3v versus 0.3 amps @6.3v for the 12AU7.
jeff
http://www.mif.pg.gda.pl/homepages/f...3/1/12AU7A.pdf
http://www.mif.pg.gda.pl/homepages/f...3/1/12BH7A.pdf
Hello ! actually I made the same myself
I have this one

Croft acoustics micro tube preamp (Used)SOLD

The line stage is a buffer made with an half of ecc82 per channel
Not having a turntable I took out the two ecc83 of the phono stage and put a 12bh7 in place of the ecc82
I prefer the sound that is more robust now
But I would like to find a kit (at least a pcb) of a buffer employing a ecc82 (so much more common) and use instead a 12bh7
This tube is powerful, clean, I like it very very much
With a nice attenuator in front of it could be a very simple but robust and nice sounding line stage
Thanks and regards,
gino
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Old 4th February 2013, 09:17 PM   #4
tinitus is offline tinitus  Europe
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I thought 12BH7 would be more like ecc99
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Old 4th February 2013, 09:35 PM   #5
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Hi ! I have found this

Arjen Helder Buffer V2

but it is low voltage. Any other kit of buffer based on ecc82 ?
Thanks a lot
gino
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Old 4th February 2013, 09:55 PM   #6
tinitus is offline tinitus  Europe
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no no
forget the crappy kits

start reading 6V6 line preamp
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Old 5th February 2013, 06:19 AM   #7
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Hi thank you for the advice.
But I need a kit to have any hope to succeed
I do not like my actual preamp

Click the image to open in full size.

it is too crowded, tubes are horizontally placed (I much prefer vertical position), I do not like the pot but I do not want to modify it.
Much better something completely new.
Now that I know that a 12bh7 is so much more powerful and it works more or less in the same conditions of a ecc82 I am quite stick with.
If only I could find a kit of a buffer using a ecc82 I think I would be done.
By the way I read that this very tube is quite common in the driver stage of well received tube power amps, like Manley for one.
So the search is on.
And as I said I strongly need a kit that can be a robust base to start with
Thanks again and kind regards,
gino

Last edited by ginetto61; 5th February 2013 at 06:26 AM.
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Old 5th February 2013, 08:46 AM   #8
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- ECC99 and 12BH7 are quite different tubes
- no, the 12BH7 is not "so much more powerful".
- yes, it does sound much better than 12AU7/ECC82. At least NOS tubes do, I don't know about the modern russian copies...
- yes, you can swap them, IF the heater transformer can supply 0.6A of heater power instead of 0.3A per tube. If it can't, the voltage will be lower and the transformer may heat up. It would be a pity to misuse a good and expensive NOS 12BH7 - it needs between 6.2v and 6.3v, no more, no less. If the voltage is lower, it would behave like a USED, dead tube. If it is higher, its lifespan would be halved.
- so no, it's not a good idea to buy a chinese ECC82 kit, unless you are prepared to modify it. It would be simpler and better to DIY...
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Old 5th February 2013, 08:50 AM   #9
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Yes, the 6v6 cathode follower Tinitus mentioned above would be a great choice.
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Old 5th February 2013, 09:43 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vincent77 View Post
- ECC99 and 12BH7 are quite different tubes
- no, the 12BH7 is not "so much more powerful".
- yes, it does sound much better than 12AU7/ECC82. At least NOS tubes do, I don't know about the modern russian copies...
Thank you. May be I have understood why they all speak about the ecc82 and not of the 12bh7
I read that the 12bh7 is less common on the market.
It is an old tube with little new production. So the ecc82 is much more available ?
But what makes me wonder, if it is really better why no kits, no projects ???
I would expect a bigger interest on this tube

Quote:
- yes, you can swap them, IF the heater transformer can supply 0.6A of heater power instead of 0.3A per tube. If it can't, the voltage will be lower and the transformer may heat up. It would be a pity to misuse a good and expensive NOS 12BH7 - it needs between 6.2v and 6.3v, no more, no less. If the voltage is lower, it would behave like a USED, dead tube.
If it is higher, its lifespan would be halved.
- so no, it's not a good idea to buy a chinese ECC82 kit, unless you are prepared to modify it.
It would be simpler and better to DIY...
I understand the power supply issue ... is not a problem for me to add a more powerful power supply. This is not a major problem
a 12V/2-3A regulated power supply can be found easily off the shelf

Quote:
Yes, the 6v6 cathode follower Tinitus mentioned above would be a great choice.
I have to read the thread first carefully, but as I said I need a kit
It is my only chance to get something that works
Thanks again
Regards,
gino
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