I have been considering building a tube amp for quite some time. Yesterday I finally started finding all the parts and prices for a Tubelab SSE.
It is basically going to be about $600 when all is said and done, and I don't even know if I am going to like it.
I know I like "tube warmth" because I currently use a Grant Fidelity B-283 (Yaqin CD-2) cathode follower between my DAC and my SS amp. I like it, even in it's stock form (I have not modded it).
Ideally, I'd like to hear a Tubelab SSE before spending the time and money building one. In fact, I'd like to hear any half decent tube amp before committing to building one.
I suppose I could buy a relatively affordable tube amp and see how I like it...or maybe post on Craigs List asking to borrow someone's tube amp for an afternoon? (stupid?)
One other option which might satisfy my need to tweak and also bring my more tube enjoyment would be to do a few mods on my B-283.
What would you all suggest I do?
It is basically going to be about $600 when all is said and done, and I don't even know if I am going to like it.
I know I like "tube warmth" because I currently use a Grant Fidelity B-283 (Yaqin CD-2) cathode follower between my DAC and my SS amp. I like it, even in it's stock form (I have not modded it).
Ideally, I'd like to hear a Tubelab SSE before spending the time and money building one. In fact, I'd like to hear any half decent tube amp before committing to building one.
I suppose I could buy a relatively affordable tube amp and see how I like it...or maybe post on Craigs List asking to borrow someone's tube amp for an afternoon? (stupid?)
One other option which might satisfy my need to tweak and also bring my more tube enjoyment would be to do a few mods on my B-283.
What would you all suggest I do?
in the "olden days" I would recommend buy a Dynaco 70 since that amplifier could be had for $100-$200. These days, however, vintage amplifiers have gone up tremendously in value - that same old '70 will now fetch ~$400 or more.
Another option is to try to find (via Ebay or whatever) a Magnavox - or whatever brand - console amplifier. I still have fond memories of a little single-ended 6BQ5/EL84 amplifier I once pulled out from a roadside trashed console. With only 3-5Ws of power, it was a nice sounding unit though obviously limited in power and frequency response.
Needless to say, you probably won't be disappointed with the Tubelab amp.
Another option is to try to find (via Ebay or whatever) a Magnavox - or whatever brand - console amplifier. I still have fond memories of a little single-ended 6BQ5/EL84 amplifier I once pulled out from a roadside trashed console. With only 3-5Ws of power, it was a nice sounding unit though obviously limited in power and frequency response.
Needless to say, you probably won't be disappointed with the Tubelab amp.
Thanks for your feedback. The issue of buying something older like that is it might not be running optimally (old caps, etc.) and might give me the wrong impression. I'd have nothing to compare it to, either, so I wouldn't really know if I was getting all the tube goodness that I should be (and I wouldn't have a clue how to fix it even if I could tell it was running rough).
I have looked at several very low-end, low wattage chinese tube amps on evil-bay (Music Angel, etc.) However I do not think this would be a proper introduction to tubes either. That's $200 that would be better spent on proper OPTs for the SSE.
I have looked at several very low-end, low wattage chinese tube amps on evil-bay (Music Angel, etc.) However I do not think this would be a proper introduction to tubes either. That's $200 that would be better spent on proper OPTs for the SSE.
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Synergy with the speaker system you are using is a prime consideration when considering switching to a tube amplifier.
Relatively efficient speakers with relatively constant
rofl impedance across the audio range tend to work better than low efficiency systems with complex, lossy cross-overs particularly in the case of low power SE amps.
The SSE is a good design and a good place to start with the right speaker.
Relatively efficient speakers with relatively constant
rofl impedance across the audio range tend to work better than low efficiency systems with complex, lossy cross-overs particularly in the case of low power SE amps. The SSE is a good design and a good place to start with the right speaker.
Synergy with the speaker system you are using is a prime consideration when considering switching to a tube amplifier.
Relatively efficient speakers with relatively constant
The SSE is a good design and a good place to start with the right speaker.
I'm a full range listener. Currently dual-EL70 microTowers (simple series connection for 8ohms). Eventually Aplair 10.2 in Woden Design "Silbury" boxes or Bob Brines' M10-A10.
So, not massively efficient drivers, but light enough loads I think (and my SPL requirements are not extreme).
rebuilding a vintage amplifier is a great way to learn tube stuff. That's how I cut my teeth with this hobby, restoring/modifying an old Dynaco 70. The transformers and tube sockets are likely good on those old units, so its a matter of replacing cheaper capacitors/resistors and possibly some tubes.
You're a gambler, aren't you?
Used Dynaco 70 go for around $400, I have virtually no electronics experience, and I have never heard a tube amp. Sounds like a long shot to me.
I have been back-peddling on this whole idea once again.
I think I will likely just buy a value-oriented tube amp in working condition (or new) and see how I get on with it. If I feel I need something more/better/whatever, then maybe I will DIY.
I do appreciate all the feedback and ideas though...
Build it!
There's very little more satisfying early-in-the-game than just building something that has a great reputation, that doesn't cost too much, and that has a list of parts'n'pieces that you can actually find, acquire, stockpile, and eventually use to make the device.
Further, if you "like it", one of the easiest things in the world later on will be to use the small amp as a driver for a much bigger one. The small amp would then be considered the ultimate "headphone amp". The "much bigger one" need not be very complicated at all it turns out. So long as your output transformer has a center tap on its secondary (a nice thing to have), or split secondaries (8+8 = 16, 8 = 8, 8|8 = 4 ohms), then it can trivially be hooked up to a 4-some of 6550s or EL34s in a separate enclosure, 1/3 biased in push-pull mode, with a separate high-voltage supply and output transformer. Easy to bump up, actually. Could use 8 tubes as well, 2 in parallel for both halves of the left+right channel amplifiers. With no trouble at all, you'd be pumping out 75 watts per channel of sweet tube goodness.
Ah, tubes... noobs 'n' toobs are just a great mix.
WATCH OUT for the high voltages though. When we "old timers" say they can be lethal ... trust ... lethal means DEATH. DEATH without appeal to the reset-button, to try it again. DEAD. So, please ... go in to this with open eyes and GREAT high-voltage fiddling skilz.
Old GoatGuy
There's very little more satisfying early-in-the-game than just building something that has a great reputation, that doesn't cost too much, and that has a list of parts'n'pieces that you can actually find, acquire, stockpile, and eventually use to make the device.
Further, if you "like it", one of the easiest things in the world later on will be to use the small amp as a driver for a much bigger one. The small amp would then be considered the ultimate "headphone amp". The "much bigger one" need not be very complicated at all it turns out. So long as your output transformer has a center tap on its secondary (a nice thing to have), or split secondaries (8+8 = 16, 8 = 8, 8|8 = 4 ohms), then it can trivially be hooked up to a 4-some of 6550s or EL34s in a separate enclosure, 1/3 biased in push-pull mode, with a separate high-voltage supply and output transformer. Easy to bump up, actually. Could use 8 tubes as well, 2 in parallel for both halves of the left+right channel amplifiers. With no trouble at all, you'd be pumping out 75 watts per channel of sweet tube goodness.
Ah, tubes... noobs 'n' toobs are just a great mix.
WATCH OUT for the high voltages though. When we "old timers" say they can be lethal ... trust ... lethal means DEATH. DEATH without appeal to the reset-button, to try it again. DEAD. So, please ... go in to this with open eyes and GREAT high-voltage fiddling skilz.
Old GoatGuy
I can imagine the satisfaction!
I don't own a set of headphones and cannot imagine a reason to.
[eyes glazed over] Uuuuhhhh.....
Yep. Not doing it. Sorry, but risking my life for something I "might like" is not my cup of tea. Going to buy a Musical Paradise MP-301 or something.
Indeed, if one knew how to re-cap an amp (safely).
Sorry guys, but I know my limits. My family needs me around more than I need to build (or re-build) a tube amp.
It won't have enough power for your microtowers, plus it's bandwidth compromised. You will need at least 12watts/ch, push pull EL84 would be a great place to start.
jeff
The Tubelab SSE is a solid design. My 6LU8 Spud was heavily inspired by the design, actually. You don't have to spend megabucks to build the SSE. With Edcor CXSE OPTs and a power transformer from Antek, you can probably build a complete amp for $250-$300 - not counting a chassis.
My current 300B amp sits on a piece of plywood. Hence, I call it the DeathTrap. It's a great way to test an amp design - assuming you can keep kids, pets, and other curious fingers away from it. You could build something similar for the SSE. See if you like it before committing to spending time, money on a chassis.
~Tom
My current 300B amp sits on a piece of plywood. Hence, I call it the DeathTrap. It's a great way to test an amp design - assuming you can keep kids, pets, and other curious fingers away from it. You could build something similar for the SSE. See if you like it before committing to spending time, money on a chassis.
~Tom
You can buy a push-pull EL84 on eBay from China for $200, and switch out the coupling capacitors. It is cheaper than the cost of parts. I was planning to rewire the circuit but when i opened the amp, I was surprised that they used a classic push-pull circuit and the correct resistor values. There was simply nothing to mod except the coupling capacitors. It sounded amazing with American NOS tubes, almost as good as my own SET amps (transformers alone costed $600). The Chinese have really improved their circuits lately.
If you want power and don't mind Class D, they sell 1500W PA amps for $135 shipped. They do hiss, and sound somewhat cold and analytical, but sound great with a tube preamp.
If you want power and don't mind Class D, they sell 1500W PA amps for $135 shipped. They do hiss, and sound somewhat cold and analytical, but sound great with a tube preamp.
You'd be fine with a low power SE amp if you only listen at lower levels in an average size room, and don't require "any" headroom for loud music passages etc. I'm assuming your room size is above average?
jeff
A $200 EL84 PP is something I would consider. Any links, e-bay or otherwise, that I should check out?
What about: http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Music-Angel-..._Audio_Amplifiers_Preamps&hash=item43af992725
I don't need anything like that. My current 50wpc SS "ampliceiver" is quite enough.
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Yes, my room is large and I do use some significant watts sometimes. The idea of having bandwidth-limited OPTs is not attractive to me. Without reasonably deep, rich bass, I'd almost rather not listen.
Mine is called a MingYue Mini from eBay. It comes with 6N1 driver tubes and 6P14P output tubes. I replaced with Amperex 6DJ8 and GE EL84s, but the stock 6N1s are actually very good.
Receivers are often overrated for power. "50W" is at best 20W rms into 8 ohms before onset of clipping. A push-pull EL84 will give just slightly less output in the real world.
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