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Old 8th December 2012, 01:22 PM   #31
freax is offline freax  Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crown300 View Post
Standard PCB thickness is 0.062" and 1 oz Copper. 2 oz copper costs more, I've only used it for heat transfer needs - solid state stuff.
not according to wikipedia: Printed circuit board - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Quote:
The printed circuit board industry defines heavy copper as layers exceeding 3 ounces of copper, or approximately 0.0042*inches (4.2*mils, 105*μm) thick.
Thats a significant magnitude thinner.

If you mean the copper trace thickness that is.
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Old 8th December 2012, 01:29 PM   #32
jjman is offline jjman  United States
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The answer depends on whether you are in an audio amp forum or a guitar amp forum.
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Old 8th December 2012, 01:31 PM   #33
freax is offline freax  Australia
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I see...
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Old 8th December 2012, 02:47 PM   #34
marce is offline marce  United Kingdom
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LOL,
sorry but you guys are a bit way off with PCBs and the materials...
PCB traces are copper.
You cannot solder with lead on its own. Generaly these days a SAC based solder will be used, for commercial its lead free, or tin lead eutectic if you are exept from RoHS. Silver solder to non silver solder no difference unless you are soldering silver wire.
Copper starts at 9um and can go up to 245um; 35um is 1oz. For your amps 1 to 2oz should be sufficient.
All commercial boards are made, designed, fabricated and qualified by IPC specifications, there are spacs to cover anything and everything you'll ever want to know about PCB's, so dont scare yourselves with old wives tales, think of all the PCB's in the world today...
And as I have said there are specs that cover all aspects of PCB's , heres a list of a few, the sections that cover material quality are the 41xx numbers.
So as you can see this PCB stuff is pretty serious wot ho

1601: Printed Board Handling and Storage Guidelines
2141A: Design Guide for High-Speed Controlled Impedance Circuit Boards
2152: Standard for Determining Current Carrying Capacity in Printed Board Design
2221A: Generic Standard on Printed Board Design
2222A: Sectional Design Standard for Rigid Organic Printed Boards
2223B: Sectional Design Standard for Flexible Printed Boards
2225: Sectional Design Standard for Organic Multichip Modules (MCM-L) and MCM-L Assemblies
2226: Sectional Design Standard for High Density Interconnect (HDI) Boards
2251: Design Guide for the Packaging of High Speed Electronic Circuits
2252: Design Guide for RF/Microwave Circuit Boards
2316: Design Guide for Embedded Passive Device Printed Boards
2611: Generic Requirements for Electronic Product Documentation
2612: Sectional Requirements for Electronic Diagramming Documentation (Schematic and Logic Descript
2612-1: Sectional Requirements for Electronic Diagramming Symbol Generation Methodology
2614: Sectional Requirements for Board Fabrication Documentation
2615: Printed Board Dimensions and Tolerances
3406: Guidelines for Electrically Conductive Surface Mount Adhesives
3408: General Requirements for Anisotropically Conductive Adhesives Films
4101C: Specification for Base Materials for Rigid and Multilayer Printed Boards (English)
4103: Specification for Base Materials for High Speed/High Frequency Applications
4104: Specification for High Density Interconnect (HDI) and Microvia Materials
4110: Specification & Characterization Methods for Non Woven Cellulose Based Paper for Printed Boar
4121: Guidelines for Selecting Core Construction for Multilayer Printed Wiring Board Applications
4130: Specification & Characterization Methods for Nonwoven "E" Glass Mat
4202A: Flexible Base Dielectrics for Use in Flexible Printed Circuitry
4203: Adhesive Coated Dielectric Films for Use as Cover Sheets for Flexible Printed Circuitry and F
4204: Flexible Metal-Clad Dielectrics for Use in Fabrication of Flexible Printed Circuitry
4411A: Specification and Characterization Methods for Nonwoven Para-Aramid Reinforcement
4412A: Specification for Finished Fabric Woven from "E" Glass for Printed Boards
4552: Specification for Electroless Nickel/Immersion Gold (ENIG) Plating for Printed Circuit Boards
4553A: Specification for Immersion Silver Plating for Printed Boards
4554: Specification for Immersion Tin Plating for Printed Circuit Boards
4562A: Metal Foil for Printed Board Applications
4563: Resin Coated Copper Foil for Printed Boards Guideline
4761: Design Guide for Protection of Printed Board Via Structures
4781: Qualification and Performance Specification of Permanent, Semi-Permanent and Temporary Legend
4811: Specification for Embedded Passive Device Resistor Materials for Rigid and Multilayer Printed
4821: Specification for Embedded Passive Device Capacitor Materials for Rigid and Multilayer Printe
5701: Users Guide for Cleanliness of Unpopulated Printed Boards
5702: Guidelines for OEMs in Determining Accept Levels of Cleanliness of Unpopulated Printed Boards
5704: Cleanliness Requirements for Unpopulated Printed Boards
6011: Generic Performance Specification for Printed Boards
6012C: Qualification and Performance Specification for Rigid Printed Boards
6013B: Qualification and Performance Specification for Flexible Printed Boards
6017: Qualification and Performance Specification for Printed Boards Containing Embedded Passive De
6018A: Microwave End Product Board Inspection and Test
7094: Design and Assembly Process Implementation for Flip Chip and Die Size Components
7095B: Design and Assembly Process Implementation for BGAs
7351B: Generic Requirements for Surface Mount Design and Land Pattern Standard
7526: Stencil and Misprinted Board Cleaning Handbook - FREE DOWNLOAD
9201A: Surface Insulation Resistance Handbook
9252A: Requirements for Electrical Testing of Unpopulated Printed Boards
9691A: User Guide for the IPC-TM-650, Method 2.6.25, Conductive Anodic Filament (CAF) Resistance Te
9701A: Performance Test Methods and Qualification Requirements for Surface Mount Solder Attachments
9702: IPC/JEDEC Monotonic Bend Characterization of Board-Level Interconnects
9703: IPC/JEDEC Mechanical Shock Test Guidelines for Solder Joint Reliability
9704: IPC/JEDEC Printed Wiring Board Strain Gage Test Guideline
9708: Test Methods for Characterization of Printed Board Assembly Pad Cratering
A-142: Specification for Finished Fabric Woven from Aramid for Printed Boards
A-600H: Acceptability of Printed Boards
A-610E: Acceptability of Electronic Assemblies
A-620A: Requirements and Acceptance for Cable and Wire Harness Assemblies
AC-62A: Aqueous Post Solder Cleaning Handbook
C-406: Design & Application Guidelines for Surface Mount Connectors
CA-821: General Requirements for Thermally Conductive Adhesives
CC-830B: Qualification and Performance of Electrical Insulating Compound for Printed Wiring Assembl
CF-152B: Composite Metallic Materials Specification for Printed Wiring Boards
CH-65A: Guidelines for Cleaning of Printed Boards & Assemblies
CM-770E: Component Mounting Guidelines for Printed Boards
D-279: Design Guidelines for Reliable Surface Mount Technology Printed Board Assemblies
D-325A: Documentation Requirements for Printed Boards
D-326A: Information Requirements for Manufacturing Printed Circuit Boards and Other Electronic Asse
D-422: Design Guide for Press Fit Rigid Printed Board Back Planes
DR-570A: General Specification for 1/8 inch Diameter Shank Carbide Drills for Printed Boards
DR-572A: Drilling Guidelines for Printed Boards
HDBK-005: Guide to Solder Paste Assessment
HDBK-830: Guidelines for Design, Selection and Application of Conformal Coatings
JP002: JEDEC/IPC Current Tin Whiskers Theory and Mitigation Practices Guideline
J-STD-001E: Requirements for Soldered Electrical and Electronic Assemblies
J-STD-002C: Solderability Tests for Component Leads, Terminations, Lugs, Terminals and Wires - Incl
J-STD-003B: Solderability Tests for Printed Boards
J-STD-004B: Requirements for Soldering Fluxes
J-STD-005: Requirements for Soldering Pastes - includes Amendment 1
J-STD-006B: Requirements for Electronic Grade Solder Alloys and Fluxed and Non-Fluxed Solid Solders
J-STD-012: Implementation of Flip Chip & Chip Scale Technology
J-STD-020D-1: IPC/JEDEC Moisture/Reflow Sensitivity Classification for Nonhermetic Solid State Surf
J-STD-026: Semiconductor Design Standard for Flip Chip Applications
J-STD-027: Mechanical Outline Standard for Flip Chip and Chip Size Configurations
J-STD-028: Performance Standard for Construction of Flip Chip and Chip Scale Bumps
J-STD-030: Guideline for Selection and Application of Underfill Material for Flip Chip and Other Mi
J-STD-033B: Handling, Packing, Shipping and Use of Moisture/Reflow Sensitive Surface Mount Devices
J-STD-075: Classification of Non-IC Electronic Components for Assembly Processes
MC-790: Guidelines for Multichip Module Technology Utilization
ML-960: Qualification and Performance Specification for Mass Lamination Panels for Multilayer print
MS-810: Guidelines for High Volume Microsection
QF-143: Specifications for Finished Fabric Woven from Quartz (Pure Fused Silica) for Printed Boards
S-816: SMT Process Guideline & Checklist
SA-61A: Post Solder Semi-Aqueous Cleaning Handbook
SC-60A: Post Solder Solvent Cleaning Handbook
SG-141: Specification for Finished Fabric Woven from "S" Glass for Printed Boards
SM-780: Component Packaging & Interconnecting with Emphasis on Surface Mounting
SM-784: Guidelines for Chip-on-Board Technology Implementation
SM-785: Guidelines for Accelerated Reliability Testing of Surface Mount Attachments
SM-817: General Requirements for Dielectric Surface Mounting Adhesives
SM-839: Pre & Post Solder Mask Application Cleaning Guidelines
SM-840E: Qualification and Performance Specifiation of Permanent Solder Mask and Flexible Cover Mat
T-50H: Terms and Definitions for Interconnecting and Packaging Electronic Circuits
TR-001: An Introduction to Tape Automated Bonding Fine Pitch Technology
TR-486: Report on Round Robin Study to Correlate Interconnect Stress Test (IST) with Thermal Stress
TR-579: Round Robin Reliability Evaluation of Small Diameter Plated Through Holes in PWBs
TR-583: An In-Depth Look At Ionic Cleanliness Testing
WP/TR-584A: IPC White Paper and Technical Report on the Use of Halogenated Flame Retardants in Prin
WP-008: Setting Up Ion Chromatography Capability
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Old 8th December 2012, 02:51 PM   #35
marce is offline marce  United Kingdom
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As stated PCB traces are copper and of a purity to apease the most offworld audiophile...
Further more why put solder on top of your PCB trace it dosn't achieve anything, and the resistance of solder is way worse than the copper, so pick a copper wieght thats right for the job, heres a link to a calculator that will help you deciede what copper thickness you require and what trace width...

Saturn PCB Design - PCB Via Current | PCB Trace Width | Differential Pair Calculator | PCB Impedance
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Old 8th December 2012, 02:55 PM   #36
marce is offline marce  United Kingdom
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Quote:
PCB with copper tracks is very rare, cause the copper is difficult to melt.
I see it just once in a web image, the tracks had the usual red colour.
I dont know what is worse to audio raw copper or cheap solder.

I avoid buy tube amps with PCBs, cause the PCBs usually are big and prevent the proper cooling of the amp.
The fresh air dont pass through the amp, since the PCB blocks the flow of air.
Sorry but this is some of the most misinformed comments I have ever seen, I would love to know how RAW COPPER is bad for audio, yet perfect for every other field of electronics?
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Old 8th December 2012, 03:45 PM   #37
DF96 is offline DF96  England
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As he said, because raw copper is difficult to melt!!!

And we all know how awful are audio transformers made with copper windings, such as those used in MC stepups, DI boxes, microphone inputs, valve OPTs etc.
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Old 8th December 2012, 03:51 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marce View Post
Sorry but this is some of the most misinformed comments I have ever seen, I would love to know how RAW COPPER is bad for audio, yet perfect for every other field of electronics?
Raw copper had alot of oxigen that built oxidation when is apply electric current.
For this is used OFC in audio, which is a little better.
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Old 8th December 2012, 03:54 PM   #39
DF96 is offline DF96  England
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More misinformation?
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Old 8th December 2012, 03:55 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DF96 View Post
As he said, because raw copper is difficult to melt!!!

And we all know how awful are audio transformers made with copper windings, such as those used in MC stepups, DI boxes, microphone inputs, valve OPTs etc.
I suspect all transformer wire avaliable is no OFC, but I not sure.
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