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Old 6th December 2012, 09:45 PM   #71
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Nah, the Blowtorch thread is 'bloated' enough. '-)
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Old 6th December 2012, 09:56 PM   #72
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ok then, you are welcome to continue here....
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Old 6th December 2012, 09:58 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by tomchr View Post
The problem I have with much of the audio folklore and snake oil (snakelore?) is that most of it is presented as eyewitness accounts by individuals. Usually the individuals who claim results are the same individuals who modified the circuit or they make money from selling what they claim caused the improvement in sound quality. In most cases the individual who claims results is aware that the circuit has been modified and in which way it has been modified. If they just blew $200 on AudioPhool Capacitors they will perceive an improvement in sound quality. I know I would...

A blind test is not that hard to set up if you get a friend involved. A double-blind test would be harder. And, let's face it. Most of us would rather listen to music than get involved in a scientifically valid double-blind test.

For me, personally, I have an easier time believing the eyewitness accounts if they are backed up by measurements.

~Tom
that is why personal accounts or anecdotes hold no water for me, i take them as entertainment only.....
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Old 6th December 2012, 10:05 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomchr View Post
The problem I have with much of the audio folklore and snake oil (snakelore?) is that most of it is presented as eyewitness accounts by individuals. Usually the individuals who claim results are the same individuals who modified the circuit or they make money from selling what they claim caused the improvement in sound quality. In most cases the individual who claims results is aware that the circuit has been modified and in which way it has been modified.
Are you aware that such a generalization can sound offensive, are you?

I work in the IT field as a consultant, I don't sell nothing and I earn nothing from manifacturers, I'm simply sharing my hobby experience.

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If they just blew $200 on AudioPhool Capacitors they will perceive an improvement in sound quality. I know I would...
Yeah, must be for this reason that it happens that sometimes I choose the least expensive part in a comparison...and the most expensive other times...

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A blind test is not that hard to set up if you get a friend involved. A double-blind test would be harder.(...) scientifically valid double-blind test.
Sorry but, IMHO, blind test applied to audio are overrated and easily impaired by the researcher bias while preparing the experiment protocol.

Quite the totality of such test are conducted by hard skeptics and the protocol used is, IMHO, influenced by their desire to obtain a negative result.

BTW I conducted several single blind test with my brother (an hobbyst musician) and while not everytime we agree on wich part is better we always agree if there's a difference or not.

Ah, one note.... he was an hard skeptic...I should have hypnotized him...

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For me, personally, I have an easier time believing the eyewitness accounts if they are backed up by measurements.
I would also read with interest research results/publications that support skepticals dogmas...
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Old 6th December 2012, 10:18 PM   #75
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Until evidence from those making extraordinary claims is presented, there's nothing for skeptics to work with. Nor is it worthwhile wasting time trying to disprove claims made without any physical plausibility and no evidence. You're free to make faith-based decisions for yourself, but no serious practitioner is going to waste time chasing every silly audiophile notion thrown out there with zero to back it up. There's too many real problems out there- why waste time with fantasy?
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Old 6th December 2012, 10:26 PM   #76
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Anthropomorphism is a deeply disturbing conduct humanity possesses.
No doubt once a cap is "broken in" it has a lively sound in its first few years of life. Over time it develops a mellow tone....& towards the end of its life it starts to sound "slow" & lethargic.

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Old 6th December 2012, 10:26 PM   #77
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If I said I just saw Elvis would anyone believe me? Probably not. BUT the people that WANT to believe me will. Amazing similarities...nevermind I'm gonna stop before I get flamed.
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Old 6th December 2012, 11:28 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by SY View Post
You're free to make faith-based decisions for yourself, but no serious practitioner is going to waste time chasing every silly audiophile notion thrown out there with zero to back it up. There's too many real problems out there- why waste time with fantasy?
I must have misunderstood the spirit of the forum...

BTW I would still read with pleasure some scientific research results that supports skepticals claims...

No, I suppose I can't since there's no research on fantasy...

I must have dreamed about Dr. Kunchur research on phase and the fact that he had to use audiophile parts to have consistent results...

I should have been on acid when I've thought I've read that study on copper made by silly people from Cracow University...

I've even imagined a white paper that pretends to demonstrate cable's directivity using Maxwell's equations made by mr. Hawksford, better than The Hobbit in 3D!.

A masterpiece is also Clarity Cap research on capacitors, they pretend that they move on transients!

My fantasy hero is mr. Ben Duncan from UK (sorry no links, articles are copyrighted)... in his alternate universe cables, resistors and caps are directional, metals have a sound and other fantasies!

My favourite audio-fiction readings are the US Patents accepted even if not backed up by scientific notions, like Jelmax's patent (US5057972), or Eichman's one (US6495763) or Cardas'one (US4628151).

As some of you can imagine from my nick I'm a science-fiction addict...
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Old 6th December 2012, 11:34 PM   #79
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Shorter Clave: "I neither have nor can cite any actual evidence of audibility of 'break in' in capacitors."

It's not up to skeptics to disprove vague and unphysical claims made by audiophiles (and people preying on the gullibility of audiophiles) offered without evidence. It's a simple concept, really.
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Old 6th December 2012, 11:48 PM   #80
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It's not up to skeptics to disprove vague and unphysical claims made by audiophiles (and people preying on the gullibility of audiophiles) offered without evidence. It's a simple concept, really.
I do agree, absolutely.

Maybe we should let it know to all the skeptics flooding most threads where such claims are made...

Going to sleep now... Good night!

I'll dream about directional resistors
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