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Old 6th December 2012, 05:55 PM   #41
12E1 is offline 12E1  United Kingdom
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I get the impression from some of the posts that "breaking in" components only ever makes them sound better (whatever that might mean). Surely there's also a pretty good chance that the same process could also cause a component to make the overall sound worse. Why is this option never mentioned?

To take this argument further, if the breaking in process does make a difference (and I accept that it can - valves and speakers are an obvious example where there can be changes early in their life, electrolytic caps as well in some cases) then it must also be possible to break in a part more than is ideal for the optimum effect. How would one know when the correct degree of breaking in has been applied, and then how would one arrest the break in process? It all seems a bit hit and miss to me.
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Old 6th December 2012, 06:00 PM   #42
DF96 is offline DF96  England
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vincent77
You can use any cap and call it good.
Who said that? I guess it is easier to criticise the most extreme version of whatever you think others think.

As I said, whatever 'break-in' does to a cap it will be undone and redone by the circuit itself. Feed a bit of noise first if it makes you feel better.

12E1: Oh dear, what an awkward fellow you are!

Last edited by DF96; 6th December 2012 at 06:01 PM. Reason: add response to 12E1
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Old 6th December 2012, 06:03 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by 12E1 View Post
Surely there's also a pretty good chance that the same process could also cause a component to make the overall sound worse. Why is this option never mentioned?
Sometimes it happens, In fact I do prefer Silmic II when new than broke in...regarding bass performance.

The Black Gate changes a lot during burn-in, some day they sound hawful, the next wonderful until they stabilize.

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Originally Posted by 12E1 View Post
To take this argument further, if the breaking in process does make a difference (and I accept that it can - valves and speakers are an obvious example where there can be changes early in their life, electrolytic caps as well in some cases) then it must also be possible to break in a part more than is ideal for the optimum effect.
It's not so... a component burns-in until it stabilize..
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Old 6th December 2012, 06:11 PM   #44
AndrewT is offline AndrewT  Scotland
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..............It's not so... a component burns-in until it stabilize..
and the science to support this conjecture is?
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Old 6th December 2012, 06:18 PM   #45
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and the science to support this conjecture is?
I don't have any direct support for it other than my empyrical experience.

I can't see much science from whom deny it too...
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Old 6th December 2012, 06:23 PM   #46
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IMHO as far as breaking in caps, resistors, tubes, the patience of your neighbors, etc. Turn on power switch and crank it up! If you are going to break something in break it in hard so it will know who is in charge. As far as expensive caps go...just because it costs more doesn't necessarily mean it is better. I just finished building a 6l6+6sl7 SE amp and I bought every cap in it from the local Radio Shack for less than 20 bucks total. Sounds great! Good low end and refined mids and highs. Just my 2 cents worth.
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Old 6th December 2012, 06:25 PM   #47
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Then you can't really say the effect isn't due to the capacitor becoming unstable from burn-in.
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Old 6th December 2012, 06:31 PM   #48
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Who said that? I guess it is easier to criticise the most extreme version of whatever you think others think.
Sorry about that, but I was joking, because someone had said "generic ones are just as good as expensive branded ones".
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Old 6th December 2012, 06:34 PM   #49
AndrewT is offline AndrewT  Scotland
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We know about resistor value variations.
We know about inductor parasitics.
We know about electrolytic capacitor parameter variations, particularly with regard to reforming the insulating layer
We know about semiconductor parameters and how using the wrong type will affect performance.

It's the lack of evidence about film capacitors that I am querying.
What does anyone have to offer?
Which parameter varies with use but not with time (on the shelf or in circuit but without power) and what effect will that have on performance
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Last edited by AndrewT; 6th December 2012 at 06:37 PM.
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Old 6th December 2012, 06:36 PM   #50
DF96 is offline DF96  England
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We have our extremists too! I would never claim that all caps are the same, as careful measurements show that they are not. However, I do believe that in most locations in most circuits the differences do not matter. The exception is where the cap significantly affects the frequency response, which should be the minority of caps, or where stray capacitance is the real effect.
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