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Old 10th December 2012, 07:50 PM   #281
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Nothing I could ever find would please you, SY. I try to find pertinent material to explain what we often hear. This is one of the better articles.
However, once this is shown, then people have to extrapolate the BASIC CONCEPT of physical relocation of 99.999 % pure copper just sitting at room temperature. Think what it might do with current flowing through it, or if it was cryoed?
At least, I bought the book that had this article. That is more than most would do.
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Old 10th December 2012, 07:58 PM   #282
SY is offline SY  United States
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Nothing I could ever find would please you, SY.
A little evidence would.
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Old 10th December 2012, 07:59 PM   #283
DF96 is offline DF96  England
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I know this must be getting boring but I keep asking the same question:
even given an effect which is much bigger than anyone could conceivably imagine (e.g. some capacitor parameter doubled/halved), what would this do to an audio circuit? My answer is virtually nothing. So a big change in a coupling cap would produce a small change in a circuit. A tiny change in a cap would produce an almost infinitesimal change in a circuit, yet we are told that this is clearly audible (but only when sighted?).

Known measurable effects from temperature make little or no change to circuits, so that we only worry about a few of them (e.g. thermal cycling in feedback resistors). Why worry about even smaller non-effects?

Apart from jc blowing quantum smoke in our eyes, I note that most of the 'break-in fans' are grasping at misunderstood straws they heard from 'a man in a pub' rather than anything based on genuine understanding of physics and chemistry.
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Old 10th December 2012, 08:01 PM   #284
M Gregg is offline M Gregg  United Kingdom
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Sound quality Vs measurement?

I still think if its not imagination then its adding or removing from the signal. Ie creating its own noise. OK yes another red herring.
And again it should be measurable..so where is the measurement?...It dosen't seem to exist..so why do dielectrics sound different..is this measurable..it should be..so a change in the dielectric sounds different with the same cap value?

Harmonics..oups another red herring..mechanical vibration? no we can't measure it..static effect..no we can't measure it..
Internal vibration with applied voltage..no we can't measure it..Piezo effect..no we can't measure it..

So as AndrewT said..its only seen in circuit..if it exists..so something effecting the cap? I give up...not a change in cap something else? The solder joint?..LMAO..

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Last edited by M Gregg; 10th December 2012 at 08:23 PM.
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Old 10th December 2012, 08:19 PM   #285
20to20 is offline 20to20  United States
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No, quantum physics seems to be the root of the phenomenon. I wish I knew it better.
Imagine how much a pre-broken-in audiophile quality cap would cost! That gives me an idea for a high margin business plan.

I like to give away cryo-treated tubes at parties. It takes about 2 hours and a few icecube trays. If you find a tube floating in your drink after the ice melts, it's yours to keep, as a party gift!

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Old 10th December 2012, 08:24 PM   #286
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Imagine how much a pre-broken-in audiophile quality cap would cost! That gives me an idea for a high margin business plan.

I like to give away cryo-treated tubes at parties. It takes about 2 hours and a few icecube trays. If you find a tube floating in your drink after the ice melts, it's yours to keep, as a party gift!

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Guess I would be out of luck theres no ice in my Burbon just keep it in the refrigerator . Audiophilers want only virgin cap no used for them. Next thing you tell me the power cable matter.
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Old 10th December 2012, 08:29 PM   #287
M Gregg is offline M Gregg  United Kingdom
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Next thing you tell me the power cable matter.
Well I like the tripple plait... sorry off topic.

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Old 10th December 2012, 08:40 PM   #288
20to20 is offline 20to20  United States
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Audiophilers want only virgin cap no used for them.
You saw right through me. No go, now.

Just as well, I suppose even if they were new caps, pre-broken-in, they would all come back due to the Satisfaction Guarantee, after being installed and then having no angels fly out of the speakers. Maybe it's an idea already tried and failed.

Thanks for stopping me from losing $55 of my initial startup cost!

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Old 10th December 2012, 08:41 PM   #289
bcmbob is offline bcmbob  United States
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O.K. That's enough for me on that subject. I did say "an extreme example", meaning - not the same - but no matter. No way to make a point, let alone an extra point as the ball seems to be doing one of those Linus and Lucy things.

Onward and upward !!!
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Old 10th December 2012, 08:47 PM   #290
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M Gregg View Post
Sound quality Vs measurement?

I still think if its not imagination then its adding or removing from the signal. Ie creating its own noise. OK yes another red herring.
And again it should be measurable..so where is the measurement?...It dosen't seem to exist..so why do dielectrics sound different..is this measurable..it should be..so a change in the dielectric sounds different with the same cap value?

Harmonics..oups another red herring..mechanical vibration? no we can't measure it..static effect..no we can't measure it..
Internal vibration with applied voltage..no we can't measure it..Piezo effect..no we can't measure it..

So as AndrewT said..its only seen in circuit..if it exists..so something effecting the cap? I give up...not a change in cap something else? The solder joint?..LMAO..

Regards
M. Gregg
How about a 6 frequency intermodular test spaced at 1, 1.6, 2.3 ,5, 7, 9 . on say a HP 3562 or other low noise floor device. There your test . I know some one will come forth and say the spacing as non-scientific with no basis in what they read on the net . But I have not yet seen other wise.
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