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Old 7th December 2012, 09:09 PM   #121
Reality first!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SY View Post
If "subjectivists" is defined as people who refuse to test their own perceptions and validate extraordinary claims, believing that they're somehow beyond the restrictions of the human brain, then "gullible" is apt.
SY, I'm really surprised to read these words from you....

Even if it may be apt. (I don't agree, obviously) it's still an insult or at least disrespectful, so a forum's policy infringement according DIY Audio rules, IMHO:

  1. Insulting, intimidating, bullying, harassing or other disrespectful or antisocial behavior.
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Last edited by ClaveFremen; 7th December 2012 at 09:09 PM. Reason: typo
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Old 7th December 2012, 09:12 PM   #122
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Originally Posted by M Gregg View Post
How do some capacitors self heal?
1.2 Self-healing
Breakdowns can occur under heavy electrical load as a result of weaknesses or pores in the dielectric. The integrity of self-healing capacitors is not affected by such breakdowns.
When a breakdown occurs, the dielectric in a breakdown channel is broken down into its atomic
components by the electric arc that forms between the electrodes. At the high temperatures of as
much as 6000 K, a plasma is created that explodes out of the channel region and pushes the dielectric layers apart. The actual self-healing process starts with the continuation of the electric arc
in the propagating plasma. Here the metal layers are removed from the metal edges by evaporation.
Insulation areas are formed. The rapid expansion of the plasma beyond the areas of insulation and
its cooling in the areas of less field strength allow the discharge to extinguish after a few microseconds.
The area of insulation that is created is highly resistive and voltage-proof for all operating requirements of the capacitor. The self-healing breakdown is limited in current and so it does not represent
a short circuit. The self-healing process is so brief and low in energy that the capacitor also remains
fully functional during the breakdown.

Taken from: http://www.epcos.com/web/generator/W...nformation.pdf
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Old 7th December 2012, 09:15 PM   #123
DF96 is offline DF96  England
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Unlikely that a bit of white noise will promote self-healing in a capacitor.
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Old 7th December 2012, 09:20 PM   #124
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I believe you are correct. That description does not apply to coupling capacitors, although it is an interesting read. Unless maybe the capacitor in question is severely under-rated.

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Unlikely that a bit of white noise will promote self-healing in a capacitor.

Last edited by scott17; 7th December 2012 at 09:22 PM.
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Old 7th December 2012, 09:27 PM   #125
M Gregg is offline M Gregg  United Kingdom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DF96 View Post
Unlikely that a bit of white noise will promote self-healing in a capacitor.

I agree,

So if there is a very slight leakage it will continue to leak dependant on voltage / frequency until it self heals and voltage applied would have a direct effect. Applying higher voltages than in working conditions and frequencies over extended periods would/could have an effect..perhaps a music transient...if this was correct then the cap would get better with age to a point..(Just a thought).

http://www.wima.com/EN/selfhealing.htm


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Last edited by M Gregg; 7th December 2012 at 09:36 PM.
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Old 7th December 2012, 09:45 PM   #126
AJT is offline AJT  Philippines
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Originally Posted by Magz View Post
I never could tolerate RPN back in my college days. I always went for TI calcs...PChem was hard enough...
i still have my "slide rule" from my college days in the early 70's...
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Old 7th December 2012, 09:47 PM   #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sofaspud View Post
Let me ask... is there any research to suggest the reality of this capacitor break-in phenomenon? Bateman, Jung, Marsh, timing circuits, etc., etc.?
There's a lot of research from 50-60 years ago on paper caps and the need for keeping their environment warm and dry (some of which I summarized above), and electrolytic cap manufacturers have certainly published a lot on the kinetics of oxide layer formation. Plastic dielectrics? Nope, with the exception of a recent paper by Doug Self on (relatively hygroscopic) Mylar.
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Old 7th December 2012, 09:53 PM   #128
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capacitor is two conductors with a insulator in between.
Just what breaks in ?
If you are changing the dielectric or conductors then you damaging the capacitor !

This is just another "speaker wire makes a difference" thread.
It makes very little difference as to be not to be worried about.
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Old 7th December 2012, 10:03 PM   #129
SY is offline SY  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nigelwright7557 View Post
capacitor is two conductors with a insulator in between.
Just what breaks in ?
In the case of paper (and perhaps Mylar), impurities, probably comprising water.
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Old 7th December 2012, 10:05 PM   #130
just another
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SY View Post
If you define "subjectivist" as someone who insists on doing controlled evaluations by ear, I would say that they're the opposite of gullible. They are hard-nosed realists. If "subjectivists" is defined as people who refuse to test their own perceptions and validate extraordinary claims, believing that they're somehow beyond the restrictions of the human brain, then "gullible" is apt.

I have ranted before about the false dichotomy of "subjective" versus "objective."

In any case, this is WAY off topic, so let's put that aside and stick to actual data regarding claims of capacitor break-in.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClaveFremen View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by SY View Post
If "subjectivists" is defined as people who refuse to test their own perceptions and validate extraordinary claims, believing that they're somehow beyond the restrictions of the human brain, then "gullible" is apt.
SY, I'm really surprised to read these words from you....

Even if it may be apt. (I don't agree, obviously) it's still an insult or at least disrespectful, so a forum's policy infringement according DIY Audio rules, IMHO:

  1. Insulting, intimidating, bullying, harassing or other disrespectful or antisocial behavior.
Clave, Perhaps you should have quoted SY's full text when you posted, as it reads very differently in the full context to the excerpt that you quoted.

As SY said the conversation was drifting off topic. Please drop it and get on with the topic at hand.
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