Which is the best for output transformers - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > Amplifiers > Tubes / Valves

Tubes / Valves All about our sweet vacuum tubes :) Threads about Musical Instrument Amps of all kinds should be in the Instruments & Amps forum

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 24th October 2003, 03:03 AM   #1
AD1865 is offline AD1865  China
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Hangzhou
Default Which is the best for output transformers

Is the double C-core transfomers or IE transformers? Someone said that C-core have good bass but IE have better mellifluence, because C-core increase winding length and hence an increase in leakage inductance and capacitance,so the detail in high frequence is less.Someone said C-core attenuate high frequence moderately so have good balance.
Another question :Is siliver wire better than copper?
  Reply With Quote
Old 24th October 2003, 07:03 AM   #2
diyAudio Member
 
Sch3mat1c's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Send a message via ICQ to Sch3mat1c Send a message via AIM to Sch3mat1c
The only difference is that C-cores tend to have a higher mu, hence fewer turns can be used, and more bandwidth. Fewer turns also means a smaller core is necessary for the same power level.

But then, you can get GOSS (Grain-Oriented Silicon Steel, as opposed to generic transformer iron, NOSS (Non-Oriented ..)) in E-I shapes as well, so there is absolutely no difference.

Just as you can't read a book by its cover, so also you can't tell anything (except gross power level at some low frequency) just by looking at a transformer. It all depends on winding design and geometry.

Silver wire is ever-so-slightly more conductive than copper; economically, it still costs some 100? (I have no idea) times more than copper; by weight, it's more dense so there will be negative weight savings vs. resistance. Audiophoolically, it is the greatest thing since markers on the edge of a CD.

Tim
__________________
Seven Transistor Labs
Projects and Resources
  Reply With Quote
Old 24th October 2003, 08:39 AM   #3
diyAudio Member
 
Brett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
As we can't really do an "all things being equal" type comparison, I'd say the definitve answer is, it depends. It depends on the design, the manufacturer, the materials, the insularion, the core material etc.

I have Lundahls and Lancrofts in C core and Peerless, Dyna, Fisher and Magnequest in EI and they're all good, but do sound different. The Peerless is probably the best all round (to my ears), and it's from the 50's, but doesn't suit my main amp Z-wise, so I use the big Lundahl.

So it just depends just what you're looking for I s'pose, so you'll just have to try a few, or take a risk on the one your gut will tell you is the one you'll prefer.
  Reply With Quote
Old 24th October 2003, 10:19 AM   #4
AD1865 is offline AD1865  China
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Hangzhou
Default thanks for your good advices

May be I will try with Jensen IE transformers and Audio note
double C-core transformers with my tube preamplifier. It will cost so much that I will became a beggar.
  Reply With Quote
Old 24th October 2003, 12:55 PM   #5
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Western Australia
Try Sowter of the UK for very good Output Transformers

I had some absolutely superb Ultra Linear Push Pull Transformers Custom Made for the Elan Audio Enigma Monoblock Amplifiers running KT 88's

Absolutely superb, but not cheap

Find details on the Enigma on www.elan.com.au
__________________
Poul Kirk
  Reply With Quote
Old 25th October 2003, 02:15 PM   #6
jlsem is offline jlsem  United States
diyAudio Member
 
jlsem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Dallas,TX
Audiophoolically, it is the greatest thing since markers on the edge of a CD.

Well, this is an old argument that has been hashed out on that "other" newsgroup. Usually the users of the term "audiophool" are those who have never done extensive or serious listening to great audio equipment. I'm no golden ear, but I can certainly hear the difference between copper wired components and those using silver wire or OCCC wire for that matter. My only problem with silver wire for audio is the jacked-up price of the stuff compared to the relative costs of the raw material. If you can afford silver, by all means try it.

C-cores usually are more compact than EI cores of same rating, and are generally not as leaky. The opinions as to which type sounds better are more or less equally divided. I'll go one better by saying at least one well-known tube audio expert I know believes that all of the higher quality well-known OPT's pretty much sound the same. There was an actual coparison in an issue of StereoSound magazine of several different manufacturers, but I don't know what the outcome was because I don't read Japanese!

John
  Reply With Quote
Old 25th October 2003, 04:35 PM   #7
diyAudio Member
 
Sch3mat1c's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Send a message via ICQ to Sch3mat1c Send a message via AIM to Sch3mat1c
Quote:
Originally posted by jlsem
Well, this is an old argument that has been hashed out on that "other" newsgroup. Usually the users of the term "audiophool" are those who have never done extensive or serious listening to great audio equipment. I'm no golden ear, but I can certainly hear the difference between copper wired components and those using silver wire or OCCC wire for that matter. My only problem with silver wire for audio is the jacked-up price of the stuff compared to the relative costs of the raw material. If you can afford silver, by all means try it.
I am a scientist. I see absolutely no possible physical reason why any person should be able to 'hear wire'. Face it buddy, if it were true, double-blind tests would show something. But they don't, so it's literally all in your head.

Tim
__________________
Seven Transistor Labs
Projects and Resources
  Reply With Quote
Old 25th October 2003, 07:16 PM   #8
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: London
Default Best for zero NFB?

I use PP zero NFB amps, and would be grateful for any recommendations as to which OPTs retain their high frequency performance. My present (modded) Leak Stereo 20 is a bit down in the extreme treble.
  Reply With Quote
Old 25th October 2003, 09:58 PM   #9
diyAudio Senior Member
 
fdegrove's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Belgium
Hi,

Quote:
I am a scientist. I see absolutely no possible physical reason why any person should be able to 'hear wire'.
No?

How does one undo a brainwash, I wonder?

Leaving aside personal preferences, I think it's safe to say that "scientifically" there is a difference between copper and silver conductors.

If they left it out of that scientific education or not, it's none of anyone's doing but it's definitely there for all to be seen and heard.

Cheers Joel II,
__________________
Frank
  Reply With Quote
Old 25th October 2003, 10:19 PM   #10
diyAudio Senior Member
 
fdegrove's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Belgium
Hi,

Quote:
My present (modded) Leak Stereo 20 is a bit down in the extreme treble.
I've reason to doubt the OPT is at fault as I've heard 20/20s that weren't lacking in the treble with their standard OPTs.

Cheers,
__________________
Frank
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Difference between SE output transformer and push-pull output transformers hilbert_mostert Tubes / Valves 12 8th March 2009 05:10 PM
Help identifying a pair of output transformers and power transformers mjk130 Parts 3 30th January 2009 10:44 AM
2a3 output transformers.... button_fly Tubes / Valves 3 10th October 2007 02:05 PM
Output Transformers eduardio Tubes / Valves 2 13th May 2005 02:42 PM
Using output transformers on Zen Amp? G Pass Labs 14 5th November 2004 11:54 PM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 08:51 AM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2