If you want really good ones:
Automatic Electric Europe
or:
Tribute - The final word in audiotransformers
Both dutch and that's not why I recommend them but our economy needs a boost anywayBTW the owner of Tribute is a forum member here.
AE audio are not very good. I had the impression the guy did not really get what I wanted, when I was placing my order.
And he placed a G2 connection which I did not ask for.
And he forgot to ship half the items.
Email conversation is available, if somebody asks proof. It's ...cute.
He seems a little confused, generally. Good price though. I guess you get what you pay for...
Hi I never ordered transformers from them myself but friends did. I always hear of good to very good quality and specials are no problem for them but they seem to be busy with their industrial work which is understandable. My orders for other products were to the point and prices were OK. I always experienced that they were very busy so email took some days which is not a problem for me. Audio products are just a hobby of the owner. It is quite rare one can make a living out of audio.
- you got an extra G2 you did not ask for but did they charge for it ?
- is the product influenced negatively with an extra G2 and is this feature a popular standard feature that might come handy in the future ?
- did you pay for the forgotten items and/or were they sent later ?
- is the company not very good in your opinion or,(IMO more important) the products ? In your post this is unclear to me.
- could language problems have been the source of miscommunication ?
I don't want to defend AE but it could have been an isolated case. Not that such has been the case with your order but I deal with national and international customers regularly and some think that 3 words are enough when they want to order something very specific. When things go wrong it is often an unclear order or plain miscommunication. Some people get annoyed when detailed replies are given or detailed questions are asked which is in their own interest ! The use of ,often misused, "jargon" does not make it easier.
Just an example but I deal with such communication by asking numbered questions like this:
1. in which color do you want our product ? black or silver ?
2. What mains voltage do you have in the area the product will be used in ? 230 V or 115 V AC ?
3. How many do you want ?
4. Etc. etc.
In many cases I only get an answer on only the first question
- you got an extra G2 you did not ask for but did they charge for it ?
- is the product influenced negatively with an extra G2 and is this feature a popular standard feature that might come handy in the future ?
- did you pay for the forgotten items and/or were they sent later ?
- is the company not very good in your opinion or,(IMO more important) the products ? In your post this is unclear to me.
- could language problems have been the source of miscommunication ?
I don't want to defend AE but it could have been an isolated case. Not that such has been the case with your order but I deal with national and international customers regularly and some think that 3 words are enough when they want to order something very specific. When things go wrong it is often an unclear order or plain miscommunication. Some people get annoyed when detailed replies are given or detailed questions are asked which is in their own interest ! The use of ,often misused, "jargon" does not make it easier.
Just an example but I deal with such communication by asking numbered questions like this:
1. in which color do you want our product ? black or silver ?
2. What mains voltage do you have in the area the product will be used in ? 230 V or 115 V AC ?
3. How many do you want ?
4. Etc. etc.
In many cases I only get an answer on only the first question
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Oh, right I remember the delivery time.
Ordered, October 10th
Skipped, March 31st (the incomplete order, the rest a little later, no extra charge)
As I said, the guy seemed overburdened and confused, the product is OK. For your other questions, I can send you our email conversation via PM as proof.
Ordered, October 10th
Skipped, March 31st (the incomplete order, the rest a little later, no extra charge)
As I said, the guy seemed overburdened and confused, the product is OK. For your other questions, I can send you our email conversation via PM as proof.
Source for good trafos in Greece
Just… for the record.
In the attached pictures are shown the transformers I’ve used in my SET amplifier which are made in Greece. In the left side is the 10H/310mA choke, in the right is the 350VA mains trafo and in the middle the most interesting i.e. the output trafo. Is custom made for use in a SET amplifier equipped with two parallel 300B/c (for Push-Pull use the windings of output trafo are different). The core of this trafo is made up from Si-Fe grain oriented laminates of 0.35mm thickness, its primary impedance is 1.5ΚΩ and its power is 100W (350mA max primary current) and offers both 4 and 8Ω outputs. The core has a B = 1.7 Tesla – though is not from Permalloy - and the primary voltage drop at full power, with load connected in output, is just 3 - 4 Volts. Primary is made up from 4 paralleled windings and secondary from 3 (or 4?) cross (or anti-parallel? I don’t remember) windings. It is a special winding method for SET amplifiers. All windings are made with 0.8mm copper wire (wrapped very tightly), for that reason the very small voltage drop. The core has a nominal bandwidth (as is given by the German constructor of laminates) from 10 up to 110,000Hz with a small lag (-2dB) at 60KHz. In actual test presents a bandwidth of up to 210KHz with a fall rate of -1dB/octave from 110KHz and above. At 210KHz the fall comes abruptly and the test signal falls by -60dB (if I remember well). The very good frequency response is proven in the attached FFT plot “Bandwidth -3dB” taken from the output of the SET amplifier at full power / 8Ω load. It is truly very linear from 10 up to 20,000Hz.
For the rest, choke core is made up from 0.5mm laminates and mains trafo core from 0.75mm ones and its B = 1.2 Tesla. In the second picture is shown the mains trafo back side with multiple HT taps (from 2 X 400 up to 2 X 460Vac) that i asked to have the possibility - in the future - to try different 300B, e.g. those with mesh plate instead the carbon plate 300B/c currently used.
The transformer laboratory is located at Thessaloniki, is well known among Greece as top for 60 years and accepts any custom request. E.g. in my case I asked fully impregnation of all trafos in epoxy varnish (is executed inside vacuum) and “Belly Bands” (though this of output trafo was redundant and caused some side effects so I removed it). Trafos are offered either with open fames or with black painted or nickel plated covers. On actual device mains trafo proven almost noiseless, the mechanical noise is very small and is audible only in absolute silence and only if you place your ear very close to trafo e.g. less than 10cm.
Vangelis Antoniadis, owner of the lab, is open to any request, very prompt and helpful (he helped me a lot because I am newbie in tubes). The lab is heritage from his father G. Antoniadis, he is electrical engineer and did 5 years studies in U.K. (I don’t remember the university) so Vangelis is very good in English thus you can come to understanding very easy with he.
A remarkable event (which is presented only in a Greek forum) was a side by side comparison of one of his output trafos with a corresponding of Lundhall. The performance of Vangelis trafo proven quite better. Additionally its price was the half of the 450 Euro that costs the Lundhall.
In my solid state projects, where no toroid adopted, I always use – 30 years ago – mains trafos of Vangelis Antoniadis. Especially in 50 – 60 pieces monster PA amplifiers (2 X 1000Wrms/2Ω max continuous power EIA, 20 – 20,000Hz) that i built from 1989 – 1991 I’ve used exclusively 1KVA EI trafos of Vangelis (actually he made up these trafos with 1.2KVA core). These amplifiers are still in operation without any problem of their mains trafos which still remain solid like rocks!
Finally, Vangelis Antoniadis accept payments thru PayPal (you should ask he to confirm it) and ships inexpensively thru traditional Post Office. No UPS, TNT, DHL etc. expensive courier services by default!
Here the link of lab: http://www.antoniadis.com/?page_id=7
You can find useful links in his web-site for tubes datasheets and many other, though English language is not supported. But you can use his e-mail address vangelis@antoniadis.com to make a contact with he in English.
Please don't take as advertisement all above, i pay like all people the trafos i order from Vangelis, he just makes me a small discount because we collaborate for so many years. I simply like to offer my help in the members of forum.
Just… for the record.
In the attached pictures are shown the transformers I’ve used in my SET amplifier which are made in Greece. In the left side is the 10H/310mA choke, in the right is the 350VA mains trafo and in the middle the most interesting i.e. the output trafo. Is custom made for use in a SET amplifier equipped with two parallel 300B/c (for Push-Pull use the windings of output trafo are different). The core of this trafo is made up from Si-Fe grain oriented laminates of 0.35mm thickness, its primary impedance is 1.5ΚΩ and its power is 100W (350mA max primary current) and offers both 4 and 8Ω outputs. The core has a B = 1.7 Tesla – though is not from Permalloy - and the primary voltage drop at full power, with load connected in output, is just 3 - 4 Volts. Primary is made up from 4 paralleled windings and secondary from 3 (or 4?) cross (or anti-parallel? I don’t remember) windings. It is a special winding method for SET amplifiers. All windings are made with 0.8mm copper wire (wrapped very tightly), for that reason the very small voltage drop. The core has a nominal bandwidth (as is given by the German constructor of laminates) from 10 up to 110,000Hz with a small lag (-2dB) at 60KHz. In actual test presents a bandwidth of up to 210KHz with a fall rate of -1dB/octave from 110KHz and above. At 210KHz the fall comes abruptly and the test signal falls by -60dB (if I remember well). The very good frequency response is proven in the attached FFT plot “Bandwidth -3dB” taken from the output of the SET amplifier at full power / 8Ω load. It is truly very linear from 10 up to 20,000Hz.
For the rest, choke core is made up from 0.5mm laminates and mains trafo core from 0.75mm ones and its B = 1.2 Tesla. In the second picture is shown the mains trafo back side with multiple HT taps (from 2 X 400 up to 2 X 460Vac) that i asked to have the possibility - in the future - to try different 300B, e.g. those with mesh plate instead the carbon plate 300B/c currently used.
The transformer laboratory is located at Thessaloniki, is well known among Greece as top for 60 years and accepts any custom request. E.g. in my case I asked fully impregnation of all trafos in epoxy varnish (is executed inside vacuum) and “Belly Bands” (though this of output trafo was redundant and caused some side effects so I removed it). Trafos are offered either with open fames or with black painted or nickel plated covers. On actual device mains trafo proven almost noiseless, the mechanical noise is very small and is audible only in absolute silence and only if you place your ear very close to trafo e.g. less than 10cm.
Vangelis Antoniadis, owner of the lab, is open to any request, very prompt and helpful (he helped me a lot because I am newbie in tubes). The lab is heritage from his father G. Antoniadis, he is electrical engineer and did 5 years studies in U.K. (I don’t remember the university) so Vangelis is very good in English thus you can come to understanding very easy with he.
A remarkable event (which is presented only in a Greek forum) was a side by side comparison of one of his output trafos with a corresponding of Lundhall. The performance of Vangelis trafo proven quite better. Additionally its price was the half of the 450 Euro that costs the Lundhall.
In my solid state projects, where no toroid adopted, I always use – 30 years ago – mains trafos of Vangelis Antoniadis. Especially in 50 – 60 pieces monster PA amplifiers (2 X 1000Wrms/2Ω max continuous power EIA, 20 – 20,000Hz) that i built from 1989 – 1991 I’ve used exclusively 1KVA EI trafos of Vangelis (actually he made up these trafos with 1.2KVA core). These amplifiers are still in operation without any problem of their mains trafos which still remain solid like rocks!
Finally, Vangelis Antoniadis accept payments thru PayPal (you should ask he to confirm it) and ships inexpensively thru traditional Post Office. No UPS, TNT, DHL etc. expensive courier services by default!
Here the link of lab: http://www.antoniadis.com/?page_id=7
You can find useful links in his web-site for tubes datasheets and many other, though English language is not supported. But you can use his e-mail address vangelis@antoniadis.com to make a contact with he in English.
Please don't take as advertisement all above, i pay like all people the trafos i order from Vangelis, he just makes me a small discount because we collaborate for so many years. I simply like to offer my help in the members of forum.
Attachments
All Greek craftsmen who strive hard for so many years to offer the best product to the consumer, they really appreciate deeply your positive comment. Thank you!
On the other hand, is really sad to see other Greeks which not support this effort. The same applies and to other non-industrial countries. A transformer for audio amplifier, certainly is not something like a nuclear reactor! From the basic materials only the E-I laminates and bobbins are imported. The rest, like copper wires and frames are made in Greece. There are enough trafo labs in Greece, from which two are famous for their quality. The one “T. Giatras” is located at Athens and produces toroidal trafos of top quality. The other “E. Antoniadis” is located at Thessaloniki and also produces E-I trafos of top quality. I’ve tried both of them and I am completely satisfied. Their only “drawback” is that they stock only Si-Fe bands or laminates for cores and not... Permalloy. What it matters in a E-I core is its magnetic flux “B”. Using very thin Si-Fe laminates (e.g. 0.35mm) you can obtain a core very close to one made up from Permalloy, simply its size will be little bigger for the same “B” (in Tesla).
Laminates belong to the named paramagnetic materials and there is a whole industry across the world behind such alloys. Companies spend millions in research and development of new alloys, many of them are top secrets as they mainly used in military industry, aerospace, NASA, particle accelerators, nuclear reactors etc. I remember an article I’ve read enough years ago about the famous spy aircraft SR-71 of Lockheed – Martin. There was a catalog including hundreds of alloys developed and used on it (Haspalloy, Astralloy, etc.) which of the chemical composition remains top secret. I am not so irrelevant with tube amplifiers. A friend of mine imported around 20 audio devices of the famous “Counterpoint” in the past. Were either hybrid implemented with mosfets and tubes, or clearly tubes. I remember very well that the attraction of Counterpoint was its tremendous E-I transformers that used. Reason was that main business of Counterpoint is the development of special paramagnetic alloys that used mainly by US army and NASA. Simply – like the Holland AEE – Counterpoint produced some audio devices just for fun! There are enough similar industries – like AEE – across Europe which of the main customer is probably the... CERN! For that reason they ship orders after enough months, or... years!
Summarizing: if you are enough rich you could order e.g. an Audio Note C-core (Permalloy) output trafo wounded with UPOCC Silver wire and you simply have to pay the same amount with which you could buy the one channel of a Copland monoblock! If you are not, it remains the purchase of your trafo from a domestic traditional trafo laboratory. In any country you live, not only Greece. IMHO and according my experience is the most logical thing. The purchase e.g. of a Lundahll output trafo will be waste of money. You will pay less money and above all 4 to 6 Euro shipping expenses! OTOH you should purchase Lundahll for special applications, like balanced line transformers, RIAA stages etc. You could also buy separately the laminates (though Permalloy is almost impossible to obtained, I’ve tried it on e-bay), the bobbin and enough meters of bare silver wire (though there is the difficult issue of wire varnishing unless windings will short circuited!) to wind wire by hand and to obtain a better (???) result.
Thanks to all of you.
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From those i have seen in all links you have included, i have discern SOWTER UK. All of its products are well focused for use in audio projects, are well documented and offered in fairly good prices. That is to prove that i am not a chauvinist.
Thank you Karsten, but because of the title of this thread was so obvious I was assuming there was an european distributor for them.
Thanks
Then, the border dutties. In Spain it is 21% VAT plus "other management charges" which adds up to 30% of the initial value. Funny thing is you get a 400% increment in initial price.
I can't remember well so please correct me, Are shipment costs includedin those dutties? I mean, you have to pay dutties for delivery costs?
I can't remember well so please correct me, Are shipment costs includedin those dutties? I mean, you have to pay dutties for delivery costs?
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