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Old 25th July 2012, 07:14 PM   #21
limono is offline limono  United States
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Originally Posted by 7N7 View Post
12AU7 is a pretty nasty valve; fine for old TV sets and guitar amplifiers. Morgan Jones demonstrated that its distortion performance - notably third harmonic - is very poor. Years ago I tested a few myself and the results were similar. I would never use 12AU7 in an amplifier, after all there are many better and indeed, cheaper options.

7N7
Sure , but without going into extensive arguments the nastiest systems I heard were DIY ones using all "the best parts" and "best sounding valves" not to mention a conviction that if it doesn't hum and buzz it can't possibly sound "real and alive "
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Old 25th July 2012, 07:26 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oshifis View Post
A tube amplifier does not need R&D. Everything is invented in the first half of the last century...
It is exactly what I mean. Copies of what had been invented in the last century can be cheap. But they can't compete with a tube amplifier designed today. Requirements are different. Available technologies are different. Today better power supplies are available much cheaper than then, they would cost a fortune in parts then. Dynamic load of tubes for minimum distortions. Read this forum carefully, lots of new stuff had been discussed here at least in last 5 years that you can't find in amps designed in the last century. And so on.
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Old 25th July 2012, 07:46 PM   #23
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Hi!

For a commercial product which is sold through the ususal channels, which in this case probably is: manufacturer -> importer -> dealer -> end customer, a ratio of 1:10 between the mere cost of parts and the end price is not uncommon Often even up to 1:20. Even if the circuit itself does not need to be developed, PCBs need to be laid out and tested. The chassis needs to be designed. Prototypes have to be built and the thing needs to be made producable in the intended quantities. Logistics of all part sourcing needs to be managed. The preamp needs to be assembled, tested, packed, shipped. QC needs to be set up. Marketing to be done. Everybody invloved wants to get something for his work in the end.

I don't know this preamp, never heard it and don't want to comment on tube choice or beauty of the chassis layout, but the pricing seems sensible.


Best regards

Thomas
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Old 25th July 2012, 07:55 PM   #24
7N7 is offline 7N7  United Kingdom
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Originally Posted by limono View Post
Sure , but without going into extensive arguments the nastiest systems I heard were DIY ones using all "the best parts" and "best sounding valves" not to mention a conviction that if it doesn't hum and buzz it can't possibly sound "real and alive "
Of course; no valve however good can make up for poor design and construction.

Equally there is no point in using inferior component parts - especially these days when excellent test and research data are available.

7N7
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Old 25th July 2012, 08:09 PM   #25
grufti is offline grufti  United States
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Audio Valve makes another preamp called "Conductor". That one does sell for $16,000.00 in the US. 2 x 6922 and 2 x 6N6P per channel, similar looks, two boxes. I'm not sure it matters. How about Gucci bags, Prada somethings, Louboutin shoes? The money is in the perception and all the business aspects that Wavebourn and Thomas Mayer talked about.
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Old 25th July 2012, 08:25 PM   #26
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These kind of so-called hi-end products using guitar tubes like 12AU7 are responsible for all those poor souls who fill DIY Asylum Tubes with posts like "Most musical 12AU7?", "Are long plates more euphonic?", "Please identify this windmill getter 12AU7?", "French 12AU7s - should I buy them", "$16,000 for a pair of 12AU7 on epay????!!!???"< "Were all Mullard 12AU7s made in Mitcham?".....

A lost generation.......
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Old 25th July 2012, 08:26 PM   #27
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As requested, cost of this thing reduced. So, grab yourselves a veritable bargain everyone!!!

FTR, I work in product design resulting in the manufacturing of electronic products. Some sell 5K p.a., some sell 250K p.a.

One of my designs (a vertical mast lift control system) took me (+ team of 5) 18 months to design, program, test, document and accredit. We even have our own on-site EMC chamber. This particular system sells for less than <$1/2K, has a cast aluminum base plate, tooled plastic injection cover and a 4 layer, 4oz copper PCB the size of a piece of A4 (to support THP and SMT to 0603 all at 10 thou track & gap). The $450 covers design, tooling, testing, manufacture AND delivery to the customer.

Now, comparing these expensive audio products to designer handbags / sunglasses / shoes DOES start to make more sense to me, so TY to whoever opened my eyes to that!

A
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Old 25th July 2012, 08:47 PM   #28
TheGimp is offline TheGimp  United States
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What is the market size for such a pre-amp50/Year? if they went the full legit path and had it certified (CE, UL, etc) I can see why it would sell for so much.
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Old 25th July 2012, 08:47 PM   #29
limono is offline limono  United States
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Originally Posted by underwurlde View Post
As requested, cost of this thing reduced. So, grab yourselves a veritable bargain everyone!!!

FTR, I work in product design resulting in the manufacturing of electronic products. Some sell 5K p.a., some sell 250K p.a.

One of my designs (a vertical mast lift control system) took me (+ team of 5) 18 months to design, program, test, document and accredit. We even have our own on-site EMC chamber. This particular system sells for less than <$1/2K, has a cast aluminum base plate, tooled plastic injection cover and a 4 layer, 4oz copper PCB the size of a piece of A4 (to support THP and SMT to 0603 all at 10 thou track & gap). The $450 covers design, tooling, testing, manufacture AND delivery to the customer.

Now, comparing these expensive audio products to designer handbags / sunglasses / shoes DOES start to make more sense to me, so TY to whoever opened my eyes to that!

A
Sure , you forgot to add that all of that is manufactured by British skilled work force payed living wage and sold in boutiques.
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Old 25th July 2012, 08:57 PM   #30
limono is offline limono  United States
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Originally Posted by andyjevans View Post
These kind of so-called hi-end products using guitar tubes like 12AU7 are responsible for all those poor souls who fill DIY Asylum Tubes with posts like "Most musical 12AU7?", "Are long plates more euphonic?", "Please identify this windmill getter 12AU7?", "French 12AU7s - should I buy them", "$16,000 for a pair of 12AU7 on epay????!!!???"< "Were all Mullard 12AU7s made in Mitcham?".....

A lost generation.......
Andy ,12ax7, 12au7 and the rest of family are fine sounding tubes like NE5534 is a fine sounding opamp
$4700 is not high-end anymore but rather an entry point to it . I think in the whole equation the tube used is of little importance. It should be available.
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