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Old 19th October 2012, 08:31 PM   #1011
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Quote:
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You have yet to explain what is incorrect, what is wrong, about anything you call "wrong" and not "correct".
You haven't bothered to go back and look at it, have you? It gives totally wrong answers.

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I can take your model, break the short to ground, and add a 10K resistor between the sources and ground.
There is no short to ground in my model. Please stop mis-attributing things to me.
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Old 19th October 2012, 09:03 PM   #1012
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You haven't bothered to go back and look at it, have you? It gives totally wrong answers..
Assertions again. Prove it. Take us through your claim. Where are your justifications? I've made my case. Where is yours?

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There is no short to ground in my model. Please stop mis-attributing things to me.
Not true - you must be mis-remembering. Figure 3 shows the two sources connected to "common." Figure 2 shows Rk and Rp connected to "common." The only points where Rk and Rp are connected together are the AC "ground" at B+ and ground. Your "common" can only be ground. And your sources are connected to it.

If "common" is not ground, then I could see how you might claim that the plate to common and cathode to common impedances were 1/gm. But then there would no basis left anywhere in the article whatsoever for claiming that Zpgnd and Zkgnd are 1/gm.
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Old 19th October 2012, 09:39 PM   #1013
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So you're saying "take a piece out of one schematic, jam it together with a piece out of another schematic" and then want to attribute that muddle to me and demand I justify it? No thanks.

Try actually looking at your own drawings. You clearly haven't. They give the wrong answer for any pair of loads.
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Old 19th October 2012, 10:05 PM   #1014
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I have built a case. Step by step. You say it's wrong, but you give not a single reason. Even when repeatedly challenged to. Not even the courtesy to point out what step in the argument is incorrect. You tell me to go find where the case is wrong, but it is not my place to support your arguments! Shoulder the load, and do your own work. SY, no one can or should accept anything simply on your (or my, or anyone's) say so. And that's what you're asking us to do.

Tell you what. I'll turn your comment around. "SY, try actually analyzing what you are saying. You clearly haven't. Your arguments give the wrong answer in all cases."

See how helpful and persuasive that is? Are you convinced yet?

Fact: BV's model works, just as well and as poorly (depending on the specific result sought) as yours. I invite you to argue that it requires Zpg and Zkg to be 1/gm. Connected to Rk = Rp, it argues that they are about Rk/2 = Rp/2. So is his model wrong?

So no comment on the common / ground thing, huh?
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Old 19th October 2012, 11:49 PM   #1015
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You say it's wrong, but you give not a single reason. Even when repeatedly challenged to.
I gave the best reason of all- your model gives absolutely the wrong answers. My model gives correct answers, experimentally verified, which makes it a good model.
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Old 20th October 2012, 05:59 PM   #1016
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Again, just assertions, and no justifications for them. Not even what's wrong about the answers! So let me demonstrate that there is nothing wrong with them.

If we are to evaluate models, which have no physical reality, we can't use bench tests. Our only choices are circuit analysis and simulations. And I'd much rather see you argue with a simulation than with my analysis.

So look below. I've taken your model (R? = 0) and two variations thereof (R? = 13987 and R? = infinity) and simulated the conditions of the bench test you published in your article. The results are identical to one another and in accord with those of your test. There is nothing "wrong" with any of them.

Your choice of R? = 0 is completely arbitrary. Any value from zero to infinity works. Zpg and Zkg are determined in part by R?. This means that they are not determined by your model or by any tests in your article. The article presents no evidence that they equal 1/gm.

Ymod.GIF
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Old 23rd October 2012, 10:18 PM   #1017
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I’m guessing that you were surprised to discover that there is indeed a plethora of models with the same topology as yours which gets the voltages and time constant of a balanced Cathodyne right, but is hopelessly self-contradictory when it comes to the plate and cathode to ground impedances Zpg and Zkg.

Perhaps you’ll claim that your model best represents how a Cathodyne really works. If so, please consider this. Even a cursory examination of a triode reveals that its only paths to ground are indirect and through the P and K terminals – there is no hidden ground lurking within a triode. And the simulations and the bench test have proven that any short to ground is completely non-functional, and cannot be part of “how a Cathodyne really works”. If any model is “best”, it is probably Burkhart Vogels’s, which has no path to ground. But I don’t think either one of us would use his model to determine Zpg or Zpk.

I believe it is time to stipulate that these models are useless for determining Zpg and Zkg. Don’t you agree?
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Old 24th October 2012, 12:14 AM   #1018
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Where's the "rolling eyes" emoticon...?
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Old 24th October 2012, 12:52 AM   #1019
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Quote:
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Where's the "rolling eyes" emoticon...?
Here is one: Click the image to open in full size.

One more: Click the image to open in full size.

This one does not roll eyes, but fits better: Click the image to open in full size.

This one looks like Concertina phase splitter: Click the image to open in full size.
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Last edited by Wavebourn; 24th October 2012 at 12:54 AM.
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Old 24th October 2012, 01:47 PM   #1020
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Where are the models that don't work? No comments at all? Amazing!
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