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Old 31st March 2011, 09:28 PM   #1
ryuji is offline ryuji  United States
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Default Small Speakers for 5 channel single ended amp

I built a 5 channel amp and 1 sub pre-amp out of 807 power tubes with 12at7 drivers and 12au7 pre stages. I am presently re-using my previous speakers, which were the ones that came with my old logitech Z5300e.

Given the fact that im using a single 807 per audio channel for output, in single ended pentode mode i need speakers that are rated for low-ish current requirements which means i should probably find the highest sensitivity speakers that fit my space constraints. My listening area is small(about 9x12 feet), and likewise i cannot afford the space to install very large speakers. anything much larger then around 5 inches wide(or tall for center) are nearly impossible to make work.

Did some looking around and found very few speakers that were high sensitivity. the best ones i found within the form factor i need are conveniently already packaged as a 5 channel solution. the klipsch quintet
Klipsch Quintet? Home Theater System - Specifications
I already have a sub-woofer solution i am building custom. just need to work out how/what speakers to use for satellites/center.

Does anyone know of anything better? Anyone have opinions they can give of this kit for use on tube audio?

Last edited by ryuji; 31st March 2011 at 09:43 PM.
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Old 1st April 2011, 12:24 AM   #2
ChrisA is offline ChrisA  United States
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Originally Posted by ryuji View Post
Did some looking around and found very few speakers that were high sensitivity. the best ones i found within the form factor i need are conveniently already packaged as a 5 channel solution. the klipsch quintet
Do you plan on building cabinets? If so then a design that uses multiple drivers can be more sensitive. I think you gain 3db by using two of the same drivers. or 6db by using four. This would allow for a tall but narrow speaker design.
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Old 1st April 2011, 12:44 AM   #3
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You could try the Zigmahornets... try to google for the link..
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Old 1st April 2011, 12:59 AM   #4
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check out member planet10 and the varoius models of fonken boxes with fostex drivers
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Old 1st April 2011, 01:16 AM   #5
ryuji is offline ryuji  United States
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Originally Posted by ChrisA View Post
Do you plan on building cabinets? If so then a design that uses multiple drivers can be more sensitive. I think you gain 3db by using two of the same drivers. or 6db by using four. This would allow for a tall but narrow speaker design.
that seems to make sense. the center channel in the kit is 3db more sensitive, and it has a extra driver compared to rest.

the zigmahornets could work with my rear channels but my front ones need to be capable of standing on a table. given that i probably want my front and rear channels to match sound wise. probably should use same one for all four? should have mentioned that constraint earlier.

I do also realize that my desire for small speakers mean i will be missing bass response but in my head that's what the subwoofer is for.

Last edited by ryuji; 1st April 2011 at 01:38 AM.
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Old 1st April 2011, 03:34 AM   #6
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The Zigmas get attention because of their aesthetics. You can get better bass out of much smaller speakers with the same drivers.

Driver efficiency is, in general, proportional to driver size, so small efficient speakers is a relative thing. An efficient 3" is going to be 88-89 dB, a 4.5" 92-93 dB.

To fit within a 5" baffle a 4" driver is likely as big as you can get away with,

What kind of budget?

dave
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Old 1st April 2011, 05:11 AM   #7
ryuji is offline ryuji  United States
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Originally Posted by planet10 View Post
The Zigmas get attention because of their aesthetics. You can get better bass out of much smaller speakers with the same drivers.

Driver efficiency is, in general, proportional to driver size, so small efficient speakers is a relative thing. An efficient 3" is going to be 88-89 dB, a 4.5" 92-93 dB.

To fit within a 5" baffle a 4" driver is likely as big as you can get away with,

What kind of budget?

dave
I dont really want to spend too much per speaker at this moment as i need five. i was somewhat thinking $400 to $800 full system as money is tight for me at this moment and i just want something to get my feet wet in the whole tube audio stuff. I built this nice amp to get started in enjoying the tube audio scene and i have a feeling that the logitech speakers are doing nothing but putting it to shame. But at the same rate, i want to try and get the most for the moneys worth.

Given your specified numbers for efficiency those klipsch speakers do pretty good for the money? is there anything fundamentally wrong with them?

This whole setup is for use in a PC environment. My computer is my music/gaming/movie entertainment system as i dont use a television. LFE crossover is handled by the software/hardware of my xonar d2x so i dont really need to worry too much about low freq in my satellites

Last edited by ryuji; 1st April 2011 at 05:14 AM.
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Old 1st April 2011, 07:26 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ryuji View Post
Given your specified numbers for efficiency those klipsch speakers do pretty good for the money? is there anything fundamentally wrong with them?
We are diyers... few store bought speakers would be considered good value for the dollar.

Does your amp have 4 ohm taps? Even if it does your amp will put out the same power on those taps as the 8 ohm taps (assuming appropriate impedance speakers). So you have to look at the 91 dB figure. Add on top of that that Klipsch have been found over & over again to have very optimistic numbers. I bet a more realistic figure would be <87 dB.

And they only go down to 125 Hz (optimistic again?). I have a realistic BR design for the FE126En that i consider to be an real worls example of why that driver is better suiyed to a horn -- it goes to 120 Hz (and is a realistic 93 dB 8 ohms). Ideally, with a single sub, you'd like to XO 80-100 Hz.

And the centre uses the marketing dept sidewise MTM. To be avoided because they do not work.

There are quite a few diy solutions that would fit your needs better, and give better sound. As an explicit example (with no modesty) consider the mMar-Kel70. They are a bit wider than your spec. 5 CSS EL70s would cost $220 (+ ship). Then you'd have to build boxes, IIRC 5 of these boxes will come out of a 5x5 sheet of Baltic Birch. Flat-paks are alos available for these (panels all cut and all the bits -- one of the reasons i choose this particular box in case you weren't pre-pared to build from scratch). Still within budget. You could even get a set of 5 flat-packs witht he tarted up drivers and still be shy of the top end of your budget,

dave
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Old 1st April 2011, 08:01 AM   #9
ryuji is offline ryuji  United States
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I see what you are saying now.

My amplifiers output transformers are 8 ohms for the output.
so building it myself is the best. Im no carpenter, however by any means, so where would i consider getting myself some of these pre-cut packs. my budget btw isnt set in stone, it just means i would be waiting longer before considering the speaker upgrade. kind of sounds to me like you are hinting that i should increase my budget a bit

I guess small isnt really that possible with high quality. Ill have to think about my situation and decide where my priorities lay. on one hand i could go rather large for speakers but i would need to have then placed in awkward symmetry etc. Im kind of new to the audio stuff and i a little bit had it in my head that i could find something small that would sound nice.

Thank you btw for your time and patience

Last edited by ryuji; 1st April 2011 at 08:28 AM.
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Old 1st April 2011, 08:47 AM   #10
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Poke around, look at the pictures, see what everyone is doing, get a better idea of the possibilities.

For small, near field, and on a budget you can't beat a single driver system.

Have a look at this thread... it eventually gets around to talking about the drivers i mentioned, and is an interesting journey

Mar-Kel70 in Sweden

dave
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