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So what?
a) poor filling factor,
b) lower saturation flux density,
c) low losses - high Q resonances
d) pricey - about $15-30 per kg
e) cast in China, annealed in India
f) grainy cut - no small gaps
etc.
If this is O'K with you - just get another C-set and make EE core and, eventally, the transformer you may or may not like.
Nanoperm and the likes are much better
Other then that - just another core material, potentially used by some audio transformers manufacturers.
The latter may not be applicable for this particular core just because quite a few amorphous/nanocrystal alloys may be used
BTW Metglas samples up to 5 cores for free
P.S. Using amorph for 20+ years for SMPS magnetics.
Anatoliy,
This is what I use for my amorphous core transformers, mostly in double c (two cores; one coil).
Maybe when Alexberg has the same over ten years experience which I have using these cores for audio transformers he will know what he is talking about; amorphous cores for SMPS is a quite different application.
Amorphous cores for audio transformers were first used by Tamura in Japan, I was the first using them outside Japan (Tribute Audio Transformers).
If you look for a less colored sound and excellent transparency, these transformers will deliver; many tube guys will confirm that.
Apart from that, especially for push-pull output transformers this material is inherently superior to any grade of silicon steel because of it's better hysteresis properties.
However there might be some difference in quality with cores from different manufacturers; I use the originall stuff, developed by Allied Signal / Metglas; factory is in India (these cores have the AMCC typo).
I don't know where your UMCC is coming from; there seem to be more companies using the basic Metglas amorphous tape.
The Chinese made their copies, you guess the CMCC range, but less in quality.
This is what I use for my amorphous core transformers, mostly in double c (two cores; one coil).
Maybe when Alexberg has the same over ten years experience which I have using these cores for audio transformers he will know what he is talking about; amorphous cores for SMPS is a quite different application.
Amorphous cores for audio transformers were first used by Tamura in Japan, I was the first using them outside Japan (Tribute Audio Transformers).
If you look for a less colored sound and excellent transparency, these transformers will deliver; many tube guys will confirm that.
Apart from that, especially for push-pull output transformers this material is inherently superior to any grade of silicon steel because of it's better hysteresis properties.
However there might be some difference in quality with cores from different manufacturers; I use the originall stuff, developed by Allied Signal / Metglas; factory is in India (these cores have the AMCC typo).
I don't know where your UMCC is coming from; there seem to be more companies using the basic Metglas amorphous tape.
The Chinese made their copies, you guess the CMCC range, but less in quality.
Alex, look at Finemet FT-3L data and the way this material is manufactured, and then repeat that it is not amorphous
....
That's the easy oneAlex, look at Finemet FT-3L data and the way this material is manufactured, and then repeat that it is not amorphous
"look at Finemet FT-3L data", pieter t
I do repeat that after annealing FT-3L becomes polycrystalline with particular crystal size and not the glass-like material.
By your logic we shall call ordinary steel resolidified but still "MOLTEN"
In contrary steels can grain oriented, non grain oriented, high Si, ultra high Si
and nobody mix one with the other due to huge difference in properties.
P.S. Stupid me!
I've thought that guru (mass production specialist) with 10+ years of experience would give some intricacies of material advantages utilization. Instead we discussing "how many enemies of mankind can sit on the tip of the needle simultaneously"
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Alex,
I looked at Finemet data.
You are completely right, as the amorphous material is annealed, becoming nano-crystalline.
This material is presented as "nanocrystalline amorphous", but once more, fundamentally you are right.
Silicon steel already has a crystalline structure when processed; properties of this material can be improved by annealing (grain orientation).
Nano-crystallization is only possible with the "precursor material being amorphous".
Do me a favour: don't call me a guru, I hate that term. I merely try to wind quality transformers through experience and craftsmanship; no voodoo, but trying to take advantage of the core materials available nowadays.
Anatoliy, why don't you pop in here? I have no bad feelings.
I looked at Finemet data.
You are completely right, as the amorphous material is annealed, becoming nano-crystalline.
This material is presented as "nanocrystalline amorphous", but once more, fundamentally you are right.
Silicon steel already has a crystalline structure when processed; properties of this material can be improved by annealing (grain orientation).
Nano-crystallization is only possible with the "precursor material being amorphous".
Do me a favour: don't call me a guru, I hate that term. I merely try to wind quality transformers through experience and craftsmanship; no voodoo, but trying to take advantage of the core materials available nowadays.
Anatoliy, why don't you pop in here? I have no bad feelings.
Here is the answer I got today:
Hello Anatoliy,
Thank you for your interest in Metglas AMCC-125 cores.
I anticipate that the AMCC-125 core can be utilized in your application.
The AMCC-125 is not supplied as a ‘free’ sample. These cores can be acquired through our distributor, Elna Magnetics.
pieter t, a typo I guess . Grain orientation is accomplished by mechanical process (rolling mostly).
Annealing affects grain size and internall stresses (dislocations).
That is, to the best of my knowledge
Regards
George
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pieter t, a typo I guess . Grain orientation is accomplished by mechanical process (rolling mostly).
Annealing affects grain size and internall stresses (dislocations).
That is, to the best of my knowledge
Regards
George
You are right George, I should have omitted "(grain orientation)".
Thanks for correcting me
You are right George, I should have omitted "(grain orientation)".
Thanks for correcting me
My pleasure. I only noticed your typo, a left-over from a cut-paste operation ?
Well, there should be fine print then...
When I've tried to ask for quote online it will automatically open samples window.
Unfortunately, I've ordered mine through distributor in ... (sorry no names) not US or CIS, though.
Very unfrienldy Hitachi people... devil is always in details:
3 months wait, incomplete order - got refunded, poorely marked cores, one came with box (container) broken,
been told about China and India as an excuse for delays and improper packaging.
Nano cores were just fine amorph below specs permuability wise.
As evaluation goes - just make simple circuit and check hysteresis curves vs ones for known steel.
I may provide the ones I've got.
Still I'd like to discuss transformer and not the cores/materials...
My pleasure. I only noticed your typo, a left-over from a cut-paste operation ?
George,
To be honest....no
Somehow the process of annealing to orient grain structure got settled in my mind; of course it is merely to improve it.
Thanks for holding me sharp
I can't, until I got and tortured core samples.
I need some superb P-P output trannies, for affordable high-end amps.
George,
To be honest....no
Somehow the process of annealing to orient grain structure got settled in my mind; of course it is merely to improve it.
Thanks for holding me sharp
This is to your credit then.
I wish we were all that anneal-able to our false assumptions.
Regards
George
pulled TrippleM post....guys, please shoot the message and not resort to personal attacks...- Status
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