One more 4P1L SE - Page 6 - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > Amplifiers > Tubes / Valves

Tubes / Valves All about our sweet vacuum tubes :) Threads about Musical Instrument Amps of all kinds should be in the Instruments & Amps forum

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 26th February 2011, 12:58 AM   #51
Jaime is offline Jaime  Uruguay
diyAudio Member
 
Jaime's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Montevideo
Hi Anatoliy
I Like an amp Takuma-san style, 4P1L to 4P1L.
Some day I'm going to try.

http://www.tchernovaudio.com/media/1252920192.jpg
__________________
I write in English worse than Tarzan
  Reply With Quote
Old 26th February 2011, 07:04 AM   #52
diyAudio Member
 
Wavebourn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Send a message via Skype™ to Wavebourn
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaime View Post
Hi Anatoliy
I Like an amp Takuma-san style, 4P1L to 4P1L.
Some day I'm going to try.

http://www.tchernovaudio.com/media/1252920192.jpg
Good luck!

Paralleled output tubes would give lower output resistance, for better speaker damping. But you will loose 20W of idle power dissipation instead of 10W needed for 2.5W of output power. With 2K2 transformer with paralleled tubes you can get 5W of output power.
You may use -9V bias for the driver, and -18V for the output stage, such a way plain stock batteries may be used.
__________________
"Our youth [...] have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for their elders, contradict their parents, [...] and tyrannize their teachers.” -- Plato, 447-367 BCE
  Reply With Quote
Old 26th February 2011, 04:08 PM   #53
kevinkr is offline kevinkr  United States
diyAudio Moderator
 
kevinkr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Boston, Massachusetts
Blog Entries: 6
I ordered some 4P1L from rutubes.com yesterday, it will be interesting to build an SE amp around them. Anatoliy your comments about the tube and picture you posted were my inspiration..

I guess I was not the only one as they are now showing no stock..

Incidentally rutubes is not the same as tubes.ru - sorry for the confusion..
__________________
"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." - Carl Sagan

Last edited by kevinkr; 26th February 2011 at 04:12 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 27th February 2011, 12:32 AM   #54
diyAudio Member
 
Wavebourn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Send a message via Skype™ to Wavebourn
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevinkr View Post
Anatoliy your comments about the tube and picture you posted were my inspiration..
Which picture do you mean Kevin: with triode curves, or with breadboard on top of Magnavox boombox?
__________________
"Our youth [...] have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for their elders, contradict their parents, [...] and tyrannize their teachers.” -- Plato, 447-367 BCE
  Reply With Quote
Old 27th February 2011, 12:36 AM   #55
kevinkr is offline kevinkr  United States
diyAudio Moderator
 
kevinkr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Boston, Massachusetts
Blog Entries: 6
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wavebourn View Post
Which picture do you mean Kevin: with triode curves, or with breadboard on top of Magnavox boombox?
The Magnavox..

The triode curves were impressive, but the whole maggie thing looked like FUN..

The radio article was kind of cool too, I looked at the whole magazine although obviously I couldn't read the articles unfortunately.
__________________
"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." - Carl Sagan
  Reply With Quote
Old 27th February 2011, 12:50 AM   #56
diyAudio Member
 
Wavebourn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Send a message via Skype™ to Wavebourn
Oops... Answering the first time I have not seen you had your post edited.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hihopes View Post
Are those light blue caps I see underneath there? They are huge!
No, they are on top.

Quote:
Do you put all of your trafos and chokes underneath in your pyramid design?
No, they are on top as well, in a transformer compartment that is usually shielded from hot toobs by mirrors. 4P1L generate only 20W of heat all together, instead of 4x40W GU-50 in Pyramids generate, so I used a peace of dark Lexan.

The front portion of the chassis is vacant: I will put there motorized remote control, and ladder-type input attenuator, with input selector using miniature Japanese relays.

The front panel will be ordered in Germany.

Currently I breadboard it, so it stays upside-down on top of the boombox. Transformers are not bolted, I tried them when took that picture.

Click the image to open in full size.
__________________
"Our youth [...] have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for their elders, contradict their parents, [...] and tyrannize their teachers.” -- Plato, 447-367 BCE
  Reply With Quote
Old 27th February 2011, 12:57 AM   #57
diyAudio Member
 
Wavebourn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Send a message via Skype™ to Wavebourn
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevinkr View Post

The triode curves were impressive, but the whole maggie thing looked like FUN..
The Maggie looks nice, but it is too boomey; I build some sandwiches for this amp.

Memory Foam, Linoleum, MDF, concrete, and oak veneer layers, and still the same Maggie drivers, plus a pair of naked piezos additionally.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg sandwich-3.JPG (237.6 KB, 1355 views)
__________________
"Our youth [...] have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for their elders, contradict their parents, [...] and tyrannize their teachers.” -- Plato, 447-367 BCE
  Reply With Quote
Old 27th February 2011, 02:20 PM   #58
kevinkr is offline kevinkr  United States
diyAudio Moderator
 
kevinkr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Boston, Massachusetts
Blog Entries: 6
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wavebourn View Post
The Maggie looks nice, but it is too boomey; I build some sandwiches for this amp.

Memory Foam, Linoleum, MDF, concrete, and oak veneer layers, and still the same Maggie drivers, plus a pair of naked piezos additionally.

Wow! Looks good, bet those cabinets will be nice and rigid, and non-resonant. How are you joining and sealing the corners?

Also can you point me to a good data sheet for the 4P1L as Frank's doesn't seem to have it..
I do have a Russian only djvu format data sheet and I can figure out some of the parameters, but not others.

What I think I understand:

Plate dissipation: 7.5W
Screen dissipation: 1.5W
100K grid circuit resistance in fixed bias
Recommended max plate voltage 250V,
Transconductance ~6mA/V
10.5K plate resistance (pentode mode)
Filaments 650mA @ 2.1V or 325mA at 4.2V (I'll use 2.1V connection probably with CCS)

I believe an OPT suitable for the 45 ought to work pretty well for 4P1L in triode connection? (I'll have to work out the load line, haven't done that yet.)

Operating point tbd, but somewhere around 200Vp and 45mA total Ip as a swag. I'll drive it with a 5842/417A..
__________________
"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." - Carl Sagan

Last edited by kevinkr; 27th February 2011 at 02:40 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 27th February 2011, 04:05 PM   #59
Helmuth is offline Helmuth  Netherlands
diyAudio Member
 
Helmuth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Winterswijk
Tip

About 2W and good spl here a nice speaker plan idea.

To get 104dB and 30Hz with low power SE. It is a basreflex with tractrix horn of 133 liter volume.

Back Loaded Horns
__________________
( (( KUGELWELLE )) )
recent projects :OB-mk1 /fatboy / monitor-xl / Horn-AM / dappolito / td124-mk1-rb301 / Hybrid-pse / Vfet

Last edited by Helmuth; 27th February 2011 at 04:09 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 27th February 2011, 04:53 PM   #60
diyAudio Member
 
Wavebourn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Send a message via Skype™ to Wavebourn
Thank you Helmuth;

your avatar looks very similar to my folded horn that I made for my Waybeyond bass guitar rig.



Quote:
Originally Posted by kevinkr View Post
Wow! Looks good, bet those cabinets will be nice and rigid, and non-resonant. How are you joining and sealing the corners?
I took MDF boxes from disco speakers and glued concrete layers on top of their carpet. Corners are sealed by tile glue. On top of concrete layers I glue oak veneer, corners will be covered by oak angle profile from Home Depot, glued by epoxy. I did that already before, it looks well:

http://pics.qip.ru/301nkjh.jpg


Quote:
Also can you point me to a good data sheet for the 4P1L as Frank's doesn't seem to have it..
I do have a Russian only djvu format data sheet and I can figure out some of the parameters, but not others.

What I think I understand:

Plate dissipation: 7.5W
Screen dissipation: 1.5W
100K grid circuit resistance in fixed bias
Recommended max plate voltage 250V,
Transconductance ~6mA/V
10.5K plate resistance (pentode mode)
Filaments 650mA @ 2.1V or 325mA at 4.2V (I'll use 2.1V connection probably with CCS)
I have Russian djvu archive as well, probably the same. Also, I have curves from old Radio magazine, they are here in the topic.

Quote:
I believe an OPT suitable for the 45 ought to work pretty well for 4P1L in triode connection? (I'll have to work out the load line, haven't done that yet.)
4K-5K OPTs work well.

Quote:
Operating point tbd, but somewhere around 200Vp and 45mA total Ip as a swag. I'll drive it with a 5842/417A..
Mine is 220V on plate (some drop on OPT primary), 50 mA. Also, since I drive it via cathode follower, I am getting up to 2.5W of clean power.
__________________
"Our youth [...] have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for their elders, contradict their parents, [...] and tyrannize their teachers.” -- Plato, 447-367 BCE
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
pentode in triode mode SE vs a DHT SE like 2a3/300b jarthel Tubes / Valves 67 8th July 2014 01:51 AM
Russian-English Translation of 4P1L datasheet 316a Tubes / Valves 16 6th September 2011 12:09 AM
Rare audiophile stereo tube SE amplifier DIY kit (6C2C + 4P1L). mik190 Swap Meet 7 1st November 2010 07:59 AM
Can the Golden Tube Audio SE-40 SE drive 16 ohm woofers? nelsondog Everything Else 1 11th November 2007 05:00 PM
Parallel SE vs. Single SE Output Question valveitude Tubes / Valves 19 4th May 2005 05:36 PM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 05:47 AM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright ©1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2