I feel your pain. It is easy to get caught up in all pf the details, various boutique parts, and plethora of opinions. Best thing is just to forget all that for now. Unlike some tube audio forums, this one has a good presence of level-headed people. Sure, there are all kinds of cap/tubes upgrades and so forth. Those can be done any time. You need something solid to start with...something that can drive your speakers to reasonable levels.
As far as kits, I would find one that walks you through the build process, step by step. George's kits are like this. You really can't go wrong. There is also this kit that popped up recently, though it is fairly new:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/tubes-valves/175786-kt88-se-complete-kit.html
Not much feedback yet, but it is not unlike what you have. It is PtP (which seems important to you) and is a complete kit with instructions. From building a kit like this, you will learn a great deal and it will empower you to build other designs from schematics.
Planar speakers are notoriously difficult to drive, especially for an SE amp, but it can be done. I have a friend that drives a pair of MartinLogans with a SET amp. It's a large amp (4 parallel 6L6GCs per channel), but the results are impressive.
I keep going back to your original post. From what you were trying to do, I don't think SET + planar is what you want.
Just my two cents.
As far as kits, I would find one that walks you through the build process, step by step. George's kits are like this. You really can't go wrong. There is also this kit that popped up recently, though it is fairly new:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/tubes-valves/175786-kt88-se-complete-kit.html
Not much feedback yet, but it is not unlike what you have. It is PtP (which seems important to you) and is a complete kit with instructions. From building a kit like this, you will learn a great deal and it will empower you to build other designs from schematics.
Planar speakers are notoriously difficult to drive, especially for an SE amp, but it can be done. I have a friend that drives a pair of MartinLogans with a SET amp. It's a large amp (4 parallel 6L6GCs per channel), but the results are impressive.
I keep going back to your original post. From what you were trying to do, I don't think SET + planar is what you want.
Just my two cents.Russ, I think I get what you are driving at now. I think you are meaning for me to go down the kit route as a learning curve with a workable amp at the end. Yes I am getting caught up with caps and the like; as when a product is offered for near on 3 months wages I want to know what I am getting for my money. The cap upgrades in my current amp made a huge difference to the sound quality. Sorry to ask a daft question about the Planars but I have read people raving on about them with tube amps etc and just wanted to clarify the reality. Yes p2p is important to me but pcb would probably be a good starting point to learn the "how to". Richard.
I've been there. There is so much hyperbole around audio stuff. If you do go the kit route, I would also recommend picking up Morgan Jones Valve Amplifiers book. It is packed full of information, way more than you need to build a kit. But it does have a lot of good, basic discussion on how it all works, construction techniques, etc. Later it will be even more useful as you look at other designs and understand their merits, tradeoffs etc. A really good kit with detailed instructions will give you what you need for that specific kit, but it is also useful to know why they have you do certain things.
I actually don't know about the Magnepans, personally. Their web site gives you the impression that 35W is probably the minmum...which sounds about right for planar designs. If you look at what other people are using with their SET amps, you'll see that efficiency is a serious consideration most of the time, unless you run something with big transmitter tubes or several tubes in parallel.
There is so much hyperbole around audio stuff. If you do go the kit route, I would also recommend picking up Morgan Jones Valve Amplifiers book. It is packed full of information, way more than you need to build a kit. But it does have a lot of good, basic discussion on how it all works, construction techniques, etc. Later it will be even more useful as you look at other designs and understand their merits, tradeoffs etc. A really good kit with detailed instructions will give you what you need for that specific kit, but it is also useful to know why they have you do certain things.I actually don't know about the Magnepans, personally. Their web site gives you the impression that 35W is probably the minmum...which sounds about right for planar designs. If you look at what other people are using with their SET amps, you'll see that efficiency is a serious consideration most of the time, unless you run something with big transmitter tubes or several tubes in parallel.
It would be great if audio stuff was just straight forward and up front. For example, I bought a solid state amp, cd player and speakers based on information from a well known review site. The amp was replaced within one month as it developed a fault. Then the cd player went down! I took the lot back plus the speakers and got a full refund. I am please it worked out like that as I can remember thinking should this gear be making me flinch. I can also remember thinking, "is this what hi fi should sound like". The sound was so harsh and bright at higher volumes is was like someone shining a 100watt light bulb in your eyes after you have been out drinking beer the night before!! After less than an hours listening I just wanted to flick the power off and wind up my old Edison. A bit of a question, I have had a look at the decware 6 wpc triode amp. Why does it have only 2 transformers visable. I thought one needed a power transformer and an output transformer for each channel?
The "integrated" one? Those are the OPTs. The power transformer is under the chassis...probably a toroid.
That would just take all the fun out of it for many people!
Some folks want to add a big helping of mumbo-jumbo to their basic science, to make the final dish appetizing.
Yes the integrated one. The OPT's look to be decent, the website blurb says they are made in house, question is that for both the OPT and the power transformer and how hot do they run.
VictoriaGuy, yep like most advertising I guess. Looking at amps on the net and seeing the same amp with a different badge I wondered if valve amp snap would be a good marketable product?
VictoriaGuy, yep like most advertising I guess. Looking at amps on the net and seeing the same amp with a different badge I wondered if valve amp snap would be a good marketable product?
Well I have just got back from visiting the amp/sound engineer. He is a highly qualified chap who hand makes his own cables from scratch and seems well known in the audio industry. He even goes so far as to draw the wire from actual bullion silver! This chap knows his stuff and is seriously skilled. It would appear that the problem is the speakers. We tried my amp on a pair of Q acoustics budget bookshelf speaker and the sound was ok up to a point and then speaker distortion at 2/3rds volume. We tried my speakers and the distortion started at just over half volume. He immediately said that it was the speakers. He said that they are probably are good but they do not work well with my amp. Very kindly he then linked my amp up to his Quad 2805 speakers with no power amp or anything. My amp was running these speakers with no distortion at 3/4 volume for a good 15 minuets with no problem. Mark was impressed with my little amp and said the quality of sound was hitting well above the £1000 off the shelf mark. "Now't wrong with that amp youth" was his words. I have looked a quad esl57 but they are going to be way too big for my sitting room and the waf would be exceptionally low. Has anyone got any suggestions of a decent bookshelf speaker at a reasonable price? Looked at the tekton design bookshelf but the postage cost was near on half the price of the speakers.
Yep I need to go and audition some speakers. Though most of the hi end shops have speakers which are either serious money or are about 86 dB. RX2 are about 91dB. This is the problem, hence me looking at speakers in the USA. Well I do not like nor dislike my speakers, they sound good enough to a point then they get shouty. I have also found in the past half hour that using one cable per speaker (they were bi-wired), has helped. Not sure why but I am sure it has. Far out, thought bi-wiring was a good thing. Perhaps it is if you are selling cable?
I have looked at making an amp from scratch or a kit, but by the time I have done this using good quality components, I am not far off the price of a decware 34I.2+ or an audio note kit2 (complete), or a second hand quality SET off of eBay. Not an easy set of choices to make. I need to give it some more thought.
I have looked at making an amp from scratch or a kit, but by the time I have done this using good quality components, I am not far off the price of a decware 34I.2+ or an audio note kit2 (complete), or a second hand quality SET off of eBay. Not an easy set of choices to make. I need to give it some more thought.
Well, don't build a kit if you don't think you will enjoy the process. DIY is by no means the cheapest way to go. That is a universal truth for just about any hobby. Invariably there is something coming out of China or elsewhere that it is "good enough" and costs less.
Do the speakers have separate jacks for the tweeters/woofers? If so, then your comment about the bi-wiring is logical. The tweeters are horn loaded while the woofers are not. The extra impedance may be taking the edge off a bit.
Do the speakers have separate jacks for the tweeters/woofers? If so, then your comment about the bi-wiring is logical. The tweeters are horn loaded while the woofers are not. The extra impedance may be taking the edge off a bit.
Thing is as well that auditioning speakers in a shop dose not mean they will sound the same in your home. Like this engineers system was 30k worth. Icon audio pre and a Vincent power amp that was bigger than an early 80's betamax vcr! The quad 2805 looked quite small in his sitting room. You could have 20 pairs of those quads in that room and still have had space to walk around or have people over for drinks! My sitting room would have fit 6-8 times over. If I got a pair of those quads it would be like having the world's biggest pair of headphones. My system played in his house sounded like a big walkman, but in my sitting room it sounds completely different again. I know my amp has decent components but like you say the topology could be better.
Bit of an update- I managed to pick up a pair of Decware DM944 speakers on eBay (UK) for £200 in walnut veneer. The chap who had them said he used them for about an hour and them packed them away after finding his Decware amp could drive his current speakers. When I got the speakers they sounded good but had a bit of an edge to some of the frequencies. After about 15 hours of use they smoothed out. In the process of re-capping my RCD965BXLE at the moment. Not sure what caps to use in place of the 20 year old black gates. Cerafine, Muse or Silmic any suggestions which is the closes to the F series black gate?
Just stumbled onto this thread. Recapping your audio source is IMHO not a recipe -driven pastime. It is very easy to go overboard and get it sounding quite poor, even with expensive caps. Personally, I would do it bit by bit, starting with the power supply. Audition your changes before doing more, then you can change or compensate for any variations you may not be all that happy with before it is too late to identify where you went wrong.
Alternatively, you could get a brand new DVD player for comparatively little money and enjoy the benefits of a 24bit capable source. Many of them are quite listenable. You can modify most of them fairly easily and your efforts will likely be rewarded with some impressive improvements. Get one with digital out and you can add a decent DAC for pretty cheap (or knock together one from a kit) and you will wonder how you ever tolerated your Rotel for so long. (Having heard the Rotel, I think you will find some of the harshness you complained about can be laid at its doorstep) Just my opinions. Others may shoot me down in flames.....
Regards,
William.
Alternatively, you could get a brand new DVD player for comparatively little money and enjoy the benefits of a 24bit capable source. Many of them are quite listenable. You can modify most of them fairly easily and your efforts will likely be rewarded with some impressive improvements. Get one with digital out and you can add a decent DAC for pretty cheap (or knock together one from a kit) and you will wonder how you ever tolerated your Rotel for so long. (Having heard the Rotel, I think you will find some of the harshness you complained about can be laid at its doorstep) Just my opinions. Others may shoot me down in flames.....
Regards,
William.
Hi William, I had a Cambridge Audio 650c last summer, I did not like the way the cd player sounded, it was more harsh than my Rotel. But everyone's ears are different I guess. My first port of call on this unit is to replace all the power caps as you have suggested. Then I will do the signal caps pair by pair. At the moment the unit has pretty much all Black Gate F series caps on the signal out put hence my question about what is a good/similar alternative.
Regards,
Richard
Regards,
Richard
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.