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Old 13th January 2011, 10:29 PM   #1
srinath is offline srinath  United States
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Default Dared 5.1 tube amp

New Dared DV-6C mult-ch tube amp comp to my McIntosh - eBay (item 360335082685 end time Jan-19-11 20:43:00 PST)

Has anyone tried this dared 5.1 amp.

Its got a US distributor and rave reviews from 6moons etc.

I can live with 65 watts of SE in my HT, I barely cracked my 80 watter past 4.
Cool.
Srinath.
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Old 13th January 2011, 11:00 PM   #2
tomchr is offline tomchr  United States
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This isn't SE. It's a couple of 12AX7 cathode followers driving some class D chip-amps. It also looks like the left and right channels run in opposite phase. I wonder if they're swapped at the speaker terminals. That's a pretty odd design choice in my opinion.

It's fairly clear that the 6-moons reviewer is pretty clueless about tube circuits. I wouldn't put much faith in that review simply because of that fact. The whole review and ebay listing reek of marketing drivel.

I have no personal experience with the amp, but I do have a critical eye for marketing speak and the ability to read and analyze circuit schematics.

~Tom
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Old 14th January 2011, 01:09 AM   #3
srinath is offline srinath  United States
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Now you know why I ask everything in here.

The 3 tubes are for 6 channels. Each uses 1/2 of the 12ax7 tube. Would that not be SE ?
Yea its like a tube pre with a chip power amp, I guess I should have said that in the post.
The terminals have some klugy looking wire with binding posts. Very tacky IMHO.
Cool.
Srinath.
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Old 14th January 2011, 01:42 AM   #4
Loren42 is offline Loren42  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by srinath View Post
Now you know why I ask everything in here.

The 3 tubes are for 6 channels. Each uses 1/2 of the 12ax7 tube. Would that not be SE ?
Yea its like a tube pre with a chip power amp, I guess I should have said that in the post.
The terminals have some klugy looking wire with binding posts. Very tacky IMHO.
Cool.
Srinath.
No. The 12AX7s are simply the input amp for the solid state amps used to drive the speakers. Basically, the 12AX7s add a little harmonic distortion to give you that tube-ish sound. Looks pretty, but yuck.
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Old 14th January 2011, 02:16 AM   #5
tomchr is offline tomchr  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by srinath View Post
The 3 tubes are for 6 channels. Each uses 1/2 of the 12ax7 tube. Would that not be SE ?
In a tube context single ended (SE) refers to the output stage. An SE stage has a single tube (or multiple tubes in parallel acting as one big single tube) driving one single end of the output transformer primary winding. The other end of the output transformer primary is connected to a high voltage supply. The tube is operated in class A (i.e. current continuously flows through the tube even at the extremes of the signal level).

Now outside of vacuum tube context single ended refers to a circuit where ground is used as a reference for the signal. If this is the context you want "SE" to be interpreted within, then you are correct. The amp you linked to is single ended. But then, so is an LM741 when hooked up as a regular inverting or non-inverting amp. 99.999 % of consumer HiFi is single ended.

~Tom
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Old 14th January 2011, 05:18 AM   #6
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This is more like a 5.1 tube amp:

Music Angel "MENG X5.1" Surround Tube Integrated Amplifier - 6P1 Tube Amp @ on9mart.com

I can confirm that the 2ch version of this sounds very good with a couple of small mods, but I have no experience with this one.

-Gary
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Old 14th January 2011, 11:22 AM   #7
Doz is offline Doz  United Kingdom
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Try rolling your own with one of these:

5.1 DTS AC3 decode preamplifier board+Remote control - eBay (item 190484014064 end time Jan-03-11 06:47:44 PST)

I'm currently in the parts - acquisition phase ... all those OPT are going to cost

I'll keep the credit card statements out of view of the misses
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Old 14th January 2011, 04:01 PM   #8
DF96 is offline DF96  England
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Why is it that every Chinese factory is taking a bog-standard SS amp and putting a valve in front of it, usually as just a cathode follower (but sometimes not even in the circuit!)? Could it be that they have heard that a Westerner and his money are soon parted? Have they sussed that one aspect of the dying days of a civilisation is that people are obsessed with appearance rather than substance, with fashion rather than performance?

All this nonsense gets a bad name for genuine valve circuits, which most people have never heard (apart perhaps from a seriously overdriven guitar amp).
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Old 14th January 2011, 04:19 PM   #9
kevinkr is offline kevinkr  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DF96 View Post
Why is it that every Chinese factory is taking a bog-standard SS amp and putting a valve in front of it, usually as just a cathode follower (but sometimes not even in the circuit!)? Could it be that they have heard that a Westerner and his money are soon parted? Have they sussed that one aspect of the dying days of a civilisation is that people are obsessed with appearance rather than substance, with fashion rather than performance?

All this nonsense gets a bad name for genuine valve circuits, which most people have never heard (apart perhaps from a seriously overdriven guitar amp).
Agreed.. Applies in their domestic market as well however. Could it also be that some cheap cold sounding class d amps need warming up with a tube stage designed to generate lots of even harmonics to be palatable to even the below average ear? (I was commissioned years ago to do this with some trendy and very expensive 1kW class D amp modules from a certain major that must rename nameless. Those modules sit till this day in my garage..)

The hyperbole in that eBay auction is just a little more than over the top, sets a new high in lows??

Marketing (as) a fashion statement.

Horrifyingly it might sound better than the average cheap surround receiver, but that's not really saying much.

Makes me just want to rush out and buy one of these to replace all of the carefully engineered electronics I have been working on for most of the past decade..

To put it in (my) perspective I spend more on OPTs for a stereo SE amp than this entire thing cost..
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Last edited by kevinkr; 14th January 2011 at 04:25 PM.
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Old 14th January 2011, 06:43 PM   #10
tomchr is offline tomchr  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DF96 View Post
Why is it that every Chinese factory is taking a bog-standard SS amp and putting a valve in front of it, usually as just a cathode follower (but sometimes not even in the circuit!)?
Because they've figured out that tubes sell. Then they pack the listing with a bunch of audiophool marketing drivel that in some cases doesn't even comply with the laws of physics and people buy it. Most people don't have a technical background and the ability to tell a scam from a good deal. The ones that have a bit of a clue ask here for an opinion before they buy. The rest just get ripped off.

It's really no different from the vendors of other audiophool gear. Cable burn-in machines anybody?

The sellers rely on people's emotional response to separate them from their money. Just like any other advertiser.

Also beware that some of the eBay sellers seem to lurk on the various forums (including this one) and defend the products with statements like "oh, you really need to own one to know what it sounds like. Just because the amp defies the laws of physics according to the eBay listing doesn't mean it doesn't sound good".

~Tom
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