
Home  Forums  Rules  Articles  diyAudio Store  Gallery  Wiki  Blogs  Register  Donations  FAQ  Calendar  Search  Today's Posts  Mark Forums Read  Search 
Tubes / Valves All about our sweet vacuum tubes :) Threads about Musical Instrument Amps of all kinds should be in the Instruments & Amps forum 

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.
Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving 

Thread Tools  Search this Thread 
13th January 2011, 08:06 PM  #1 
diyAudio Member
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Traslasierra

Designing Transformers with J.C.Maxwell
As a DIYer, all your work with a solder, (and all Classical Electrodynamics too) whith exception of Thermionic Effect and Semiconductor Theory (Quantum Mechanics), came from only four equations and two constitutive relationsand You must at least see them one time in your life. Eq.(1) to (4) are called Maxwell Equations due to his creator James Clerk Maxwell.
If You are afraid of Mathematical Physics, skip the Theory after take a look on Maxwell Eq.!Mandatory Well, go to Transformers Eq.(51) is the well known Np = (Upx10^8)/(√2 π f S B) Where: Np=Number of primary turns Up=RMS Primary Voltage in Volts f=frequency in Hz S=Area of the core in cm2 B=Magnetic Field in Gauss Nothing to say, all You must Know it. Eq.(37) can be placed in the form Lp = (4 π μ S Np^2)/(9 lx10^8) Where: Lp=Primary Indutance in Henry μ=Permeability of the Core l=magnetic path length in cm No Matter What You do, PP or SE Transformers, is very important because of bottom end response of a Transformer.We tend to think high u exotic materials can help...Wrong, u is a fuction of almost everything, like frequency, temperature, oil price, etc. and at low frequency generaly is low, furthermore if You have an air gap μ(Real World)=(l μ)/(l+le μ) Where: le=Air Gap in cm Much lower yet!!! If You think making PP donīt have an Air Gap, You must have perfect lamination!!! The only way is as ever, bigger core or more turns.Because the number of turns is squared, has more efect on L. For SE lovers, OPT are PIA, donīt worry, I had deduced a long time ago Eq.(41) Np = (Lp iDCx10^8)/(S B) Where: iDC=Primary DC current in Amper B=Half allowable B of the core in Gauss Recipe:Choose the bottom end frequency, with Eq.(53) can calculate Lp, iDC is given by the operation point of your output valve, B is obtained in the lamination datasheet, and S... is given by "Art of Transfomers" For a 30W SE 211/VT4C/845 16cm2 and a good standard GOSS is enough. Check the turns with Eq.(37) and choose the bigger. Estimation formulae for S are all "Rule of Tumb", the correct calculation is a bit dificult. The rest of the story is "The Art of Transformers":Winding Techniques to reduce L disperse, capacitance, increase insulation, and many more. In coclusion: Donīt waste your money, standard grade GOSS (M6) is enough, if doubleC much better, You only need High Flux to avoid saturation and a thin hysteresis curve for best linearity.The thinner the lamination the less energy loss. Cheers!
__________________
I do not suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.  Edgar Allan Poe He has the most who is most content with the least.  Diogenes of Sinope Last edited by popilin; 2nd June 2012 at 01:58 AM. 
13th January 2011, 08:13 PM  #2 
diyAudio Member
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Traslasierra

Something was wrong with the .gif
Here are. Sorry Last edited by popilin; 13th January 2011 at 08:16 PM. 
4th April 2015, 10:19 AM  #3 
diyAudio Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Merseyside

Hi popilin could you give the full titles of the books you mention with ISBN numbers if they have them. Thanks.

4th April 2015, 09:27 PM  #4 
diyAudio Member
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Lancashire

Oh look. Popilin has posted his equations again.

5th April 2015, 01:53 AM  #5  
diyAudio Member
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Traslasierra

Quote:
Sorry, not again, this is an old thread, the more complete with more equations here http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/loung...mplifiers.html
__________________
I do not suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.  Edgar Allan Poe He has the most who is most content with the least.  Diogenes of Sinope 

6th April 2015, 09:00 AM  #6 
Banned
Join Date: Oct 2014

"In coclusion: Donīt waste your money, standard grade GOSS (M6) is enough, if doubleC much better, You only need High Flux to avoid saturation and a thin hysteresis curve for best linearity.The thinner the lamination the less energy loss."
Maybe a detail but for a thinner hysteresis curve M5, M4.... M0 would be a better choice. The effect of thinner laminations are not so big as people might think. At 400Hz 0,5T (an unrealistic high flux density for an audio transformer) the differance between 0,3 mm SiFe (Vacuumschmelze Trafoperm N2) and 0,1mm is [2,93,8] = 1,1 W/kg. And at 50Hz there is almost no differance. At higher frequencies the flux density for a audio transformer wil be smaller and smaller, its not a power transformer! *source: Vacuumschmelze, Stripwound cut cores p65 
6th April 2015, 05:30 PM  #7  
diyAudio Member
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Traslasierra

Hi, is you, Martin?
Your writing style reminds me of a friend... Anyway, as I said before, this is an old thread with early results, see the next thread cited before for a deeper analysis. Quote:
Remind you that losses are related with linearity, because the area of the hysteresis curve represents losses, so using a higher grade lamination with a higher thick is, in general, a contradiction.
__________________
I do not suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.  Edgar Allan Poe He has the most who is most content with the least.  Diogenes of Sinope 

6th April 2015, 06:52 PM  #8  
diyAudio Member
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Ankara

Quote:
I got a conclusion after many simulations in LTspice with various values of scattered capacitance and leakage inductances. The latter was of the key determinant to the frequency respond. IRL it must not be so much different. 

Thread Tools  Search this Thread 


Similar Threads  
Thread  Thread Starter  Forum  Replies  Last Post 
Help identifying a pair of output transformers and power transformers  mjk130  Parts  3  30th January 2009 11:44 AM 
help designing my 2.5way  edjosh23  MultiWay  8  26th August 2005 06:40 PM 
PLease help designing my first sub.  JiggaD369  Subwoofers  119  5th May 2005 10:58 PM 
designing a MLTL?  nerd of nerds  Full Range  2  7th November 2004 03:09 PM 
Designing for guys who like designing  Sch3mat1c  Tubes / Valves  14  31st August 2003 12:46 PM 
New To Site?  Need Help? 