Edcor Transformer Specs
 User Name Stay logged in? Password
 Home Forums Rules Articles diyAudio Store Blogs Gallery Wiki Register Donations FAQ Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Search

 Tubes / Valves All about our sweet vacuum tubes :) Threads about Musical Instrument Amps of all kinds should be in the Instruments & Amps forum

 Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you. Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
 12th January 2011, 12:56 AM #1 wrenchone   diyAudio Member     Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Silicon Valley Edcor Transformer Specs I'm starting this thread to add measurements I've performed on some Edcor output transformers, so that desingngers can refer to this thread when considering a given Edcor transformer for a design. Other folks are more than welcome to chip in with their measurements. To roughly characterize a transformer, I throw it on the bench and apply 50V, 300 Hz to the primary. The 50V input voltage ensures a good flux swing so that I can get an inductance reading applicable to real working conditions. I use 300 JHz to ensure that the input excitation is in-band, so that I can get a reasonably accurate number for the turns ratio. Anway, I feed the primary with a 50V, 300 Hz signal, read the output RMS voltage with a DVM, and read the no-load excitation current using a Yokogawa WT210 wattmeter. The transformer primary inductance can be calculated from the excitation current, and the excitation voltage and frequency. All this gets me the turns ratio, so that I can calculate the transformer primary reflected impedance. The turns ratio is also an important number in it's own right, and I generally use that number rather than the impedance to calculate operating end point. for a given design. Anyway, the first set of numbers is from an Edcor GXSE15-8-5k. With 50V, 300 Hz excitation, the output voltage is 1.998V, so that the turns ratio is 25.02 :1. For the rated 8 ohm output, the reflected impedance at the primary is 5010 ohms, pretty much right on the money. No-load excitation was measured as 1.59 mA. The formula Lp = Vin/(6.28*fin*Iin) was used to calculate primary inductance. Vin = input voltage =50V. Fin = input frequency = 300 Hz. Iin = excitation current + 1.59 mA. This yields a primary inductance of ~17.7H, fairly respectable for a small sized transformer, and no doubt a compromise between low frequency extension and primary current handling capability, limited by saturation rather than overheating. Next up, I'll post some numbers on one of the bitty XSE transformers.
 12th January 2011, 01:07 AM #2 Wavebourn   Designer & Technologist diyAudio Member     Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Pleasant Hill, CA Thank you Wrenchone! My experience with Edcor calls for measurement of stray inductance for big transformers. Can you do that? Also, some small 15K:600 Ohm line level transformers have too low for 15K inductance... Is it a joke, or I misunderstand something? __________________ Nothing in the universe is perfect. The ideal things are the ones that are most optimal. Optimization criteria, what matters. When I hear "No Compromise Design", I want to take a sledgehammer and test how impact-proof it is.
 12th January 2011, 01:21 AM #3 tomchr   diyAudio Member     Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Calgary Shorting the secondary and measuring the current would give you the total leakage inductance referred to the primary. Obviously, you'd have to limit the drive signal amplitude when you do this. I measured some Edcor transformers on an HP 4194A Impedance/Gain-Phase Analyzer and used its equivalent circuit function to calculate the L, R and C from the impedance sweep. I measured the primary impedance when loaded by 8 ohm on the secondary. DC resistances were measured with a 6-digit DMM using a 4-wire setup (Kevin connection). Here's what I came up with: XSE15-8-5K: Lp = 2.43 H; Cp = 233 pF; Lleakage = 4.66 mH. Primary impedance magnitude when loaded by 8 ohm on secondary: 5.10 kOhm @ 2 kHz. R(DC) of primary: 87.44 Ohm. R(DC) of secondary: 0.264 Ohm. CXSE25-8-5K: Lp = 13.86 H; Cp = 1.541 nF; Lleakage = 10.32 mH. Primary impedance magnitude when loaded by 8 ohm on the secondary: 4.42 kOhm @ 2 kHz. R(DC) of primary: 80.83 Ohm. R(DC) of secondary: 0.361 ohm. I'm surprised the primary impedance is 4.4 kOhm not 5.0 kOhm as specified. I ordered two transformers. They both measure 4.4 kOhm. It doesn't make a big difference in real life, I'm just surprised... ~Tom
 12th January 2011, 01:42 AM #4 wrenchone   diyAudio Member     Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Silicon Valley I find that inductance numbers measured at low level excitation aren't too repeatable, and also vary with frequency. That's why I use a high level sinewave source to apply a healthy voltage with real current capability to the transformer primary. I started out using our usual inductance meter, and the numbers I got were way low. We also have an HP4194A at work. I find it very useful for other measurements and for SMPS transformers, but I dont trust the low level measurements with 60Hz transformers. Driving the transformer with a good healthy signal and using the 4194 to measure parasitics may be useful. I've been wanting to build a saturation tester to apply a fixed voltage to a transformer primary with a mosfet switch in order to look at the current ramp, with a protective current-actuated shutdown to protect the transformer, along with a healthy voltage clamp across the primary. This would be useful to determine the real current rating for a given transformer primary, as well as a way to sort out NOS/unknown transformers. This could be used to evaluate SE transformers as well as determining the volt-seconds rating for a push-pull unit. Last edited by wrenchone; 12th January 2011 at 01:43 AM. Reason: sp
 12th January 2011, 01:46 AM #5 tomchr   diyAudio Member     Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Calgary To accurately reflect performance in the circuit, the transformer should have a DC bias applied to it as well. I haven't had any issues with repeatability of my measurements on the 4194A, though. LCR meters, that's another story... ~Tom
 12th January 2011, 09:11 AM #6 revintage diyAudio Member   Join Date: May 2007 Talked to the guys at Edcor the other day and they specified the 25W 5k having 50H primary inductance at 1kHz. Quite a bit from the measured above. Also max current 125mA.
 12th January 2011, 10:52 AM #7 JLH   diyAudio Member     Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Indianapolis, IN Its seems to me that most of the Edcor designs don't always have as much inductance as I'd like. I had some custom SE transformers wound that have a 15% cathode feedback winding. It was a small 10W model 3.5K : 16/8/4. I used it for a small Class A2 amp for my desk. Anyway, the primary inductance measured in at 13H. Thank goodness for the CFB, otherwise I would have had zero bass. __________________ Ah, how beautifully the orchestra sounds before a rain! In a dry sunny day there is no way for the instruments to sound this way!
revintage
diyAudio Member

Join Date: May 2007
Quote:
 the primary inductance measured in at 13H.
If this was the 10W it shouldn´t be to farfetched that the 25W would have the double or more.

 12th January 2011, 11:55 AM #9 PWR RYD   diyAudio Member     Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Rockford, IL I realize this thread is about Edcor's output transformers, but how good are their power transformers? The particular one I was looking at was quite a bit cheaper than the same spec'd Hammond. Thanks.
 12th January 2011, 01:55 PM #10 Mickeystan   diyAudio Member   Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Canby, Oregon PWR RYD, I have purchased about 4 or 5 power transformers from Edor. Of there 2 were custom to my design. All have been quality built products that have performed right on to where they were sped'd. I believe they are a real quality built product. Mickeystan

 Posting Rules You may not post new threads You may not post replies You may not post attachments You may not edit your posts BB code is On Smilies are On [IMG] code is On HTML code is Off Forum Rules
 Forum Jump User Control Panel Private Messages Subscriptions Who's Online Search Forums Forums Home Site     Site Announcements     Forum Problems Amplifiers     Solid State     Pass Labs     Tubes / Valves     Chip Amps     Class D     Power Supplies     Headphone Systems Source & Line     Analogue Source     Analog Line Level     Digital Source     Digital Line Level     PC Based Loudspeakers     Multi-Way     Full Range     Subwoofers     Planars & Exotics Live Sound     PA Systems     Instruments and Amps Design & Build     Parts     Equipment & Tools     Construction Tips     Software Tools General Interest     Car Audio     diyAudio.com Articles     Music     Everything Else Member Areas     Introductions     The Lounge     Clubs & Events     In Memoriam The Moving Image Commercial Sector     Swap Meet     Group Buys     The diyAudio Store     Vendor Forums         Vendor's Bazaar         Sonic Craft         Apex Jr         Audio Sector         Acoustic Fun         Chipamp         DIY HiFi Supply         Elekit         Elektor         Mains Cables R Us         Parts Connexion         Planet 10 hifi         Quanghao Audio Design         Siliconray Online Electronics Store         Tubelab     Manufacturers         AKSA         Audio Poutine         Musicaltech         Holton Precision Audio         CSS         Dx Classic Amplifiers         exaDevices         Feastrex         GedLee         Head 'n' HiFi - Walter         Heatsink USA         miniDSP         SITO Audio         Twin Audio         Twisted Pear         Wild Burro Audio

 Similar Threads Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post jackm Tubes / Valves 31 4th February 2011 12:09 PM Fuling Tubes / Valves 0 11th January 2009 09:06 PM nhuwar Tubes / Valves 3 9th November 2008 10:48 PM rudy129 Swap Meet 0 5th December 2007 01:49 PM valveitude Tubes / Valves 8 16th October 2006 10:02 PM

 New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 09:11 AM.