Hi,
Do you mean a TFK smooth plate versus another manufacturers' ribbed plate?
Either way I doubt these subtle difference would show up in all systems.
It much depends on topology and naturally the resolution of the system.
Obviously when listening for differences in tubes a high circuit such as a phono preamp should make it clear.
One caveat though, not all 12AX7s/ECC83s measure the same on all electrical parameters so you can expect them to sound different, especially so when used in RIAA preamps.
Cheers,
Do you mean a TFK smooth plate versus another manufacturers' ribbed plate?
Either way I doubt these subtle difference would show up in all systems.
It much depends on topology and naturally the resolution of the system.
Obviously when listening for differences in tubes a high circuit such as a phono preamp should make it clear.
One caveat though, not all 12AX7s/ECC83s measure the same on all electrical parameters so you can expect them to sound different, especially so when used in RIAA preamps.
Cheers,
Hi,
First of all I'm not encouraging anyone to spend anything.
Secondly, I was just warning against comparing apples to oranges.
Thirdly, what's so interesting about me saying that?
Or are you just a little grumpy, Tim?
EDIT: my reference to measuring differently refered to perfectly good unused tubes, nothing to do with wear and tear.
First of all I'm not encouraging anyone to spend anything.
Secondly, I was just warning against comparing apples to oranges.
Thirdly, what's so interesting about me saying that?
Or are you just a little grumpy, Tim?
EDIT: my reference to measuring differently refered to perfectly good unused tubes, nothing to do with wear and tear.
I guess RadioLee wants to know the audible difference between TFK smooth plate and TFK ribbed plate. It really depends on the year made. Normally, ribbed plate is a little bit better with more details, also better high frequencies, clear damped bass. That means smooth plate will give you warmer and richer mid range.
TFK ECC803S will have a wider range of frequency response, but sounds too hifi and too expensive - not worth it (just in my opinion)
No matter which version, you should own at least a pair of TFK ECC83 if you love tube gear.......
Hope it can help!
TFK ECC803S will have a wider range of frequency response, but sounds too hifi and too expensive - not worth it (just in my opinion)
No matter which version, you should own at least a pair of TFK ECC83 if you love tube gear.......
Hope it can help!
Hi,
Especially when you sport a TT, love your records and value good stereo imaging.
Some companies have made very serious efforts to copy the sound of this tube which is considered the very best of it's kind...
So far I've never been disappointed by any tube TFK made, no wonder the asking prices have shot through the roof.
Cheers,
Especially when you sport a TT, love your records and value good stereo imaging.
Some companies have made very serious efforts to copy the sound of this tube which is considered the very best of it's kind...
So far I've never been disappointed by any tube TFK made, no wonder the asking prices have shot through the roof.
Cheers,
Brett said:
It really depends on your need/passion on the equipment. I won't comment on those people spending hundreds$$$ on BG or WBT/Cardas/Kimber connectors. Like Mr Peter Daniel's gainclone project, who can imagine a thousand dollar project will base on a couple dollar chip! Seriously, I believe it worths the price!
I have never disappointed with any Telefunken tubes, once you try it, you will love it!
DSummer said:
The only places I have 12AX7's in my house are,
- in the tube box, gathering a lot of dust
- in the front end of my ST35
- in my Fisher receiver.
The Fisher and the ST35 use Mullards, though the 1950's Mazda's I have sound better in the ST35. I had TFKs in my Marantz's and I still think all 12AX7's are a POS.
The ST35 may evolve ito a simple 6H30 diff amp driving the 7189's in class A. The ST is a 'spare' amp, and the Fisher is used in the bedroom system and I won't modify it because it's a classic.
Yep, don't modify it if working properly. I like either TFK or Amperrex BB with Fisher amps. Is yours 500C/800C? For Dynaco ST-35, I believe TFK will be better overall, but Mullard will have more bass and sweet vocal, probably not enough highs (both long plate/short plate), right? Actually, TFK sounds more neutral than BB, however sometimes we need some tweaking! It's really funny to play around with these toys!
Without wishing to appear heretical I can't say that I've noticed any difference between Telefunkens, Mullards or some old Mazdas I still have, and in fact last year I disposed of some TKs on ebay when prices were rising for them. I think that it is dangerous to generalise about minor differences between good quality tubes made by major manufacturers, the circuit conditions in which the tubes are used may be just as likely to 'bring out' any particular characteristics that they have, so for example a tube which appears to give better bass in one amp might appear to have less power handling in another.
To be honest if I am knocking up some experimental amp if I find the tonal balance or frequency response not to my liking I would probably change circuit operation or feedback conditions than look to change the tubes for those of a different manufacturer...
To be honest if I am knocking up some experimental amp if I find the tonal balance or frequency response not to my liking I would probably change circuit operation or feedback conditions than look to change the tubes for those of a different manufacturer...
12AX7 Controversy??
DSummer, that was the sort of opinion I was looking for. I have about thirty Telefunken 12AX7's but was not even aware of the two different plates until a short while ago.
I recently listed two ribbed plates on eBay and was surprised when I was offered 30 each. I was under the impression the smooth plate were the more desirable. I guess each has its own appeal.
The other one this guy was looking for was the Mullard with the 17mm plate. Out of about a dozen Mullards I have, only one has the longer plate. Guess I'll have to plug it in and check it out...
Meanwhile, here's an interesting site I came across-
http://hktubeaudio.homestead.com/files/12AX7.html
Peace
Lee
DSummer, that was the sort of opinion I was looking for. I have about thirty Telefunken 12AX7's but was not even aware of the two different plates until a short while ago.
I recently listed two ribbed plates on eBay and was surprised when I was offered 30 each. I was under the impression the smooth plate were the more desirable. I guess each has its own appeal.
The other one this guy was looking for was the Mullard with the 17mm plate. Out of about a dozen Mullards I have, only one has the longer plate. Guess I'll have to plug it in and check it out...
Meanwhile, here's an interesting site I came across-
http://hktubeaudio.homestead.com/files/12AX7.html
Peace
Lee
Lee,
Just for your info, Gold Lion B759 is selected from Mullard long plate (square getter) But they sound differently even from same manufacturer. Like the Fisher/Dynaco (Telefunken) sound different from the original Telefunken. I believe you should keep your long plate Mullard ECC83, it's rare now!
Just for your info, Gold Lion B759 is selected from Mullard long plate (square getter) But they sound differently even from same manufacturer. Like the Fisher/Dynaco (Telefunken) sound different from the original Telefunken. I believe you should keep your long plate Mullard ECC83, it's rare now!
The variety of opinion is what makes this such a great place
As someone who still has quite a few TFKs (for use in commercial eq as i share Brett's view) i have to admit they do sound different and better to most other makes. At the same time the difference a BG cap makes in Peter's amp is more significant to my ears than tube rolling usually is. If i have to choose between TFK, Mullard and a really nice power cord, as far as sound is concerned i know i''l probably go with the power cord.
cheers
peter
Hi Dsummer
Definitely hanging on to the Mullard. I can remember seeing one with the square getter. Maybe I still have it.
How's things in Chi-town? Ever get over to Triode?
As far as tube rolling goes, that's what makes it fun for non-techies like myself. Telefunken seemed to be the choice of engineers from Fisher, Dynaco, etc. with Mullard close behind. I sort of to bow to their wisdom.....
Lee
Definitely hanging on to the Mullard. I can remember seeing one with the square getter. Maybe I still have it.
How's things in Chi-town? Ever get over to Triode?
As far as tube rolling goes, that's what makes it fun for non-techies like myself. Telefunken seemed to be the choice of engineers from Fisher, Dynaco, etc. with Mullard close behind. I sort of to bow to their wisdom.....
Lee
Hello ,
I live in Germany and I think , I have more than 100 TFK ECC 83 ( never count them ) but all my ribbed plate 83 have the diamond mark , and they have the batch code U and a number , which says , that these tubes are manufactured in Ulm/Germany .
All my flat plate have also the diamond mark , but the code started with a B for Berlin/Germany .
I don`t know the difference in sound for this tubes , I have no amp with it , they are only for restauration of old equipment .
Regards , Alex .
www.alextubefotos.gmxhome.de
I live in Germany and I think , I have more than 100 TFK ECC 83 ( never count them ) but all my ribbed plate 83 have the diamond mark , and they have the batch code U and a number , which says , that these tubes are manufactured in Ulm/Germany .
All my flat plate have also the diamond mark , but the code started with a B for Berlin/Germany .
I don`t know the difference in sound for this tubes , I have no amp with it , they are only for restauration of old equipment .
Regards , Alex .
www.alextubefotos.gmxhome.de
For what it is worth
I don't wish to get involved except to make a general comparison.
About a year ago, I got some Telefunken Smooth plates for free and compared them to Svet, EH, Sovtek LPS, Sovtek XT+ in an old SET amp I had.
The EH was by far the closest in sound character to the Tele. In fact, in this experiment, I could hardly tell any difference.
Just thought I would pass it along, maybe save some money.
I don't wish to get involved except to make a general comparison.
About a year ago, I got some Telefunken Smooth plates for free and compared them to Svet, EH, Sovtek LPS, Sovtek XT+ in an old SET amp I had.
The EH was by far the closest in sound character to the Tele. In fact, in this experiment, I could hardly tell any difference.
Just thought I would pass it along, maybe save some money.
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