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Correct Path: Diodes Or Rectifier Tube?
Correct Path: Diodes Or Rectifier Tube?
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Old 29th December 2010, 03:46 PM   #31
andyjevans is offline andyjevans  United Kingdom
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I've always approached building hi-fi with the premise that if it sounds different it is different.

Andy
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Old 29th December 2010, 06:23 PM   #32
Jen-B is offline Jen-B  United Kingdom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M Gregg View Post
Of course the circuit must be well designed, however that is not the be all and end all of it!
So you believe that once the circuit is optimised and proven in it’s intended application (i.e. it is well designed) then that is not the end of it? Oh well, good luck with that philosophy.


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Originally Posted by M Gregg View Post
…SiC Schottky diodes,
------
Please show us all one with 1000V 1A+ we would all like to use it!
Last year I used some with 600V rating, so two in series should work… or go for the new Cree C2D05120A (RS components 702-7487) with a 1200V, 5A rating.


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The PSU you describe above adds components to remove problems with components, these "add" more problems even though they remove others.
No, and this is a big point, they do not add problems IF DONE COMPETENTLY !


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Originally Posted by M Gregg View Post
How many valve amps do you see with complex power supplies?
I note with interest that many Valve amp builders adopt a self-defeating philosophy of ‘simple at all costs’ because it seems to satisfy their psychological desire for involvement with their equipment… it allows them to harp on about changing capacitor A and getting result B, and changing resistor X and getting result Y, etc., etc.. They seem to want to identify with a given philosophy so as to be “in the gang”. This seems quite common in hi-fi circles. The problem is they then spout nonsense which misleads those that are innocently following-on and trying to learn the facts. (Facts such as a rock solid power supply is more suitable for accurate amplification than a flimsy supply which allows you to “hear” the rectifier!)


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Originally Posted by M Gregg View Post
Many "users" not builders will say they don't like the stiffled sound from regulated power supplies!
This is another major point. Users (not builders) have no idea what aspect of a system is causing a particular quality (for even if only one part has been changed you always listen to the interaction of parts and not just the single part), yet time after time they draw pathetic and shallow conclusions which they then present as facts. This leads to misinformation, and after a while sad myths take hold, such as “all feedback is bad”, “all solid state sounds harsh”, “all silver cable is bright”, “all tubes sound warm”, etc., etc..


I guess that you and I will not agree on these things, so I’ll leave it to our readers to decide. My final comment is simply this: if you can hear the rectifier there is something wrong with your design. And that’s a fact.

Kind regards,
J.
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Old 29th December 2010, 06:42 PM   #33
rdf is offline rdf  Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jen-B View Post
I note with interest that many Valve amp builders adopt a self-defeating philosophy of ‘simple at all costs’ because it seems to satisfy their psychological desire for involvement with their equipment…
Just yesterday I put the finishing touches on a single tube pre-amp that easily drives 1k loads, makes 0.01% predominantly second harmonic distortion at 1 volt rms and a tenth that at normal levels, is within a couple tenths of a dB across the entire audio band, and has a noise floor beneath my Audiophile Firewire at 24-bit, but you keep right on believing that was done to impress people instead of being better engineering than cookbook band-aid complexity.
Strange path this forum has taking.
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Old 29th December 2010, 06:53 PM   #34
SY is offline SY  United States
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Correct Path: Diodes Or Rectifier Tube?
Any chance that you'll give some design details?
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Old 29th December 2010, 07:04 PM   #35
andyjevans is offline andyjevans  United Kingdom
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"Facts such as a rock solid power supply is more suitable for accurate amplification than a flimsy supply which allows you to “hear” the rectifier!"

Power supply 1. GZ34 rectifier, choke, 600uF of large computer grade electrolytic caps. Difficult to hear any difference with a GZ32

Power supply 2. GZ33 rectifier, choke, 120uF of motor run caps. Difference with a 5U4G audible.

One supply sounded distinctly better than the other. Which, I leave to your imagination.

Andy
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Old 29th December 2010, 07:07 PM   #36
Jen-B is offline Jen-B  United Kingdom
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Originally Posted by rdf View Post

...but you keep right on believing that was done to impress people instead of being better engineering than cookbook band-aid complexity.
Perhaps you missed the bit where I said 'many', not 'all'. Good luck with your preamp.
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Old 29th December 2010, 07:20 PM   #37
boywonder is offline boywonder  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M Gregg View Post
Quote:
But if the designer has chosen SiC Schottky diodes,
------
Please show us all one with 1000V 1A+ we would all like to use it!

Regards
M. Gregg
Digi-Key - C2D05120A-ND (Manufacturer - C2D05120A)
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Old 29th December 2010, 07:30 PM   #38
DF96 is offline DF96  England
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Quote:
One supply sounded distinctly better than the other.
What is meant by "better"? More accurate as a reproducer, or more in accordance with my particular tastes in sound?

Having five times as much capacitance in a choke input supply is bound to make the rectifier characteristics less obvious. To a first approximation, the charging current pulse is set by the choke but also by the rectifier. The resultant voltage output ripple is set by the capacitance value. Less capacitance means more ripple, so more intermodulation in any less-than-ideal amplifier (especially SE!). Less capacitance therefore means rectifier characteristics more noticeable - exactly as you found. So 120uF is not enough capacitance for that particular amplifier - the 600uF PSU is better.

Audio is one of the few branches of engineering in which something which is demonstrably better can be considered to be actually worse! I am glad motor engineers don't work in the same way: the best car suspension would be the one which lets you feel every bump in the road (this shows that it is "transparent", rather than the "sluggish" ones which give a smooth ride).
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Old 29th December 2010, 07:37 PM   #39
andyjevans is offline andyjevans  United Kingdom
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I'm no expert in ss diodes, so could someone fill me in on the difference in quality of a IN4007 to a UF4007 to a SiC Schottky diode rated 1A and 1,000v?

Is there a big or a small step up with a IN4007 to UF4007 for instance, and so on to a Schottky?

Price differential is substantial.

Andy
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Old 29th December 2010, 11:42 PM   #40
mashaffer is offline mashaffer  United States
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Audio is one of the few branches of engineering in which something which is demonstrably better can be considered to be actually worse! I am glad motor engineers don't work in the same way: the best car suspension would be the one which lets you feel every bump in the road (this shows that it is "transparent", rather than the "sluggish" ones which give a smooth ride).
Actually a real driver does like a little bit of road feel but that is a topic for another forum. There is a place for technical measurements and specifications but at the end of the day it is about the music that we hear. If it measures perfectly but the life of the music is lost then maybe we are looking at the measurements in the wrong way. If we improve the measurements and the music improves also then I suppose we have evidence that we are on the right track.

I don't have a dog in this show as I haven't enough design experience to warrant an opinion, but I think we need to be a little bit humble about our ability to describe everything 100% numerically.
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