PSU capacitors

merlin el mago · 25th November 2010, 08:11 PM

I need suggestions for PSU caps, I own BG & Elna Cerafine but heard good advice about Continental & Mundorfs Lytics HV.

Thank you

Felipe

tomchr · 25th November 2010, 08:16 PM

I'd go with an aluminum electrolytic bypassed with a polypropylene myself...

merlin el mago · 25th November 2010, 09:39 PM

1 lytic / 100 film?

tomchr · 29th November 2010, 12:56 AM

I don't understand your question. I'd normally aim for a 100:1 ratio between the electrolytic and the polypropylene cap. So 100 uF electrolytic, 1 uF polypro for example.

~Tom

Vinylsavor · 29th November 2010, 08:24 AM

Hi!

Go for ASC X386 series caps. MP in oil. Better than any electrolytic, no matter how well you bypass it IMHO. I'm not a friend of bypassing I think it can create more problems and colorations than it solves. Use caps which work well without any bypassing.

best regards

Thomas

Brit01 · 29th November 2010, 08:40 AM

Quote:

I'm not a friend of bypassing I think it can create more problems and colorations than it solves

Can you elaborate on that?
Bypassing seems to be a common practice these days.

Vinylsavor · 29th November 2010, 08:53 AM

Hi!

Yes it's common practice these days and many people just blindly do bypassing without thinking a bit depper what it does. Back in the days of Sound Practices magazine it was already mentioned in write ups of advanced amp developers that they are not in favor of it.

There is the potential risk of resonances between the small bypass cap and the lead inductances to the big one.

I have heard amplifiers which had their sound quality completely destroyed by bypassing. After removal of all bypass caps they sounded really good.

I think many people just blindly apply a bypass cap. If they hear a difference they think it must be better while actually it might be worse.

I know this is in contradiction to most peoples believs and practices. So I want to make clear all this is IMHO and IME.

I'd say: Get a cap which sounds good to you without bypass. Especially electrolytics improved dramatically in the recent decade (I still don't like them though) so what might have been a good practice on elcaps 20 years ago is not needed any more these days.

Best regards

Thomas

Brit01 · 29th November 2010, 08:58 AM

Thanks Thomas.

In the case of an OTL headphone amp using a lytic 220uF as the output cap maybe a good quality bypass cap (1uF film or PIO) can be beneficial?

Vinylsavor · 29th November 2010, 09:10 AM

Hi!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brit01

In the case of an OTL headphone amp using a lytic 220uF as the output cap maybe a good quality bypass cap (1uF film or PIO) can be beneficial?

Well as I said: In my opinion NO!

My suggestion would be: Determine the minimum capacitance required. Do you really need that much? Maybe less is sufficcient, like 100 or 50uF. You can get ASC MP in oil caps in 50uF. Give them a try.

My experience: Smaller caps (smaller capacitance values) sound better than larger ones, so I always use the minimum capacitance which is needed. Don't bilndly oversize cap values, this is bad practice. Second: Caps with higher voltage rating sound better than those with lower voltage rating.

If you must use an electrolytic, get a modern one (recent manufacture). Try it without bypassing first.

Of course you may bypass it and if you prefer the sound of the bypassed cap leave it like that.

Best regards

Thomas

metalsculptor · 29th November 2010, 10:12 AM

Any modern electrolytic designed for Inverter or SMPS duty will do, Audio duty is a walk in the park compared to off-line switching duty with it us rise times and high currents, I rarely see any additional bypass capacitors used with these capacitors. If you can hear the difference between capacitors then they are too small, Elna, rifa, BHC aerovox, sprague (when they were in business) hitachi, nichicon just to name a few all make quality capacitors which last decades in industrial environments

25th November 2010, 08:11 PM	#1
merlin el mago diyAudio Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Catalonia new Europe state	PSU capacitors I need suggestions for PSU caps, I own BG & Elna Cerafine but heard good advice about Continental & Mundorfs Lytics HV. Thank you Felipe

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25th November 2010, 08:16 PM	#2
tomchr diyAudio Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Greater Seattle Area	I'd go with an aluminum electrolytic bypassed with a polypropylene myself...

25th November 2010, 09:39 PM	#3
merlin el mago diyAudio Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Catalonia new Europe state	1 lytic / 100 film?

29th November 2010, 12:56 AM	#4
tomchr diyAudio Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Greater Seattle Area	I don't understand your question. I'd normally aim for a 100:1 ratio between the electrolytic and the polypropylene cap. So 100 uF electrolytic, 1 uF polypro for example. ~Tom

29th November 2010, 08:24 AM	#5
Vinylsavor diyAudio Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Lindau	Hi! Go for ASC X386 series caps. MP in oil. Better than any electrolytic, no matter how well you bypass it IMHO. I'm not a friend of bypassing I think it can create more problems and colorations than it solves. Use caps which work well without any bypassing. best regards Thomas

29th November 2010, 08:53 AM	#7
Vinylsavor diyAudio Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Lindau	Hi! Yes it's common practice these days and many people just blindly do bypassing without thinking a bit depper what it does. Back in the days of Sound Practices magazine it was already mentioned in write ups of advanced amp developers that they are not in favor of it. There is the potential risk of resonances between the small bypass cap and the lead inductances to the big one. I have heard amplifiers which had their sound quality completely destroyed by bypassing. After removal of all bypass caps they sounded really good. I think many people just blindly apply a bypass cap. If they hear a difference they think it must be better while actually it might be worse. I know this is in contradiction to most peoples believs and practices. So I want to make clear all this is IMHO and IME. I'd say: Get a cap which sounds good to you without bypass. Especially electrolytics improved dramatically in the recent decade (I still don't like them though) so what might have been a good practice on elcaps 20 years ago is not needed any more these days. Best regards Thomas

29th November 2010, 08:58 AM	#8
Brit01 diyAudio Member Join Date: Jul 2008	Thanks Thomas. In the case of an OTL headphone amp using a lytic 220uF as the output cap maybe a good quality bypass cap (1uF film or PIO) can be beneficial?

29th November 2010, 10:12 AM	#10
metalsculptor diyAudio Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Melbourne	Any modern electrolytic designed for Inverter or SMPS duty will do, Audio duty is a walk in the park compared to off-line switching duty with it us rise times and high currents, I rarely see any additional bypass capacitors used with these capacitors. If you can hear the difference between capacitors then they are too small, Elna, rifa, BHC aerovox, sprague (when they were in business) hitachi, nichicon just to name a few all make quality capacitors which last decades in industrial environments