What are you trying to match when picking a pair of tubes for a PP stage?
(I'm guessing it's the quiescent plate current.)
I'm restoring an old Pilot AA-309B mono amplifier. It uses EL84s in the output. I have 10 NOS EL84s in my "inherited" tube collection. These are of various brands, and the quiescent plate currents range from 33mA to 70 mA. B+ in this amp is 300V, so some of the tubes exceed the 12W plate dissipation limit!
(I already complained about "cherry plate" in another thread.) If you take the fixed "un-adjustable" bias voltage of -10.5V and the plate voltage of 300V, the curves in the tube data sheet say Pilot designed this amp to put the plate dissipation right at the limit! So, it seems to me that one must not only sort tubes for matching, but sort tubes to avoid melt-down! Is this common practice?
Bobby Dipole, Tube Newbie
(I'm guessing it's the quiescent plate current.)
I'm restoring an old Pilot AA-309B mono amplifier. It uses EL84s in the output. I have 10 NOS EL84s in my "inherited" tube collection. These are of various brands, and the quiescent plate currents range from 33mA to 70 mA. B+ in this amp is 300V, so some of the tubes exceed the 12W plate dissipation limit!
(I already complained about "cherry plate" in another thread.) If you take the fixed "un-adjustable" bias voltage of -10.5V and the plate voltage of 300V, the curves in the tube data sheet say Pilot designed this amp to put the plate dissipation right at the limit! So, it seems to me that one must not only sort tubes for matching, but sort tubes to avoid melt-down! Is this common practice?Bobby Dipole, Tube Newbie
The Pilot amplifier has no cathode resistors. There's nothing at all to stabilize the bias in this circuit. You would never see this in a transistor circuit! Anyway, I set up a little breadboard with a 9 pin socket, and wired it up to a Heathkit HV power supply for testing. I put a one ohm resistor in series with the plate to measure plate current. I wish my tube tester was versatile enough to do this.
Bobby Dipole
Hi Wave
,How do you bake them? (time and temperature?)
My wife already thinks this a wacko-nut-ball hobby.
Wait until she sees this! ..Todd
Hi Wave
How do you bake them? (time and temperature?)
Depends on taste. I prefer brown & crusty.
I buy puff pastry in Trader's Joe, crab meat in Costco, rice and rice cooker in Chinese store, onion and eggs elsewhere... Cook rice, mix with crab meat, chopped onion, add one egg, mix thoroughly, wrap in puff pastry. Preheat oven to 375 degrees F, put a pie there on 22 minutes (until brown and crusty), take it off the oven, eat. Yummy!
Glass tubes need to be baked overnight on the same temperature: they are rated usually for 200 degrees C max. I did not try to bake tubes with Bakelite sockets, but I am pretty sure all 6P3S tubes I have need to be baked.
Last edited:
Hey Todd, who's wife doesn't?
That does sound yummy.
jeff
Sneak the tubes in with the pie ... then only get in trouble for "leaving the oven on"???
I once baked a cylinder head in the oven (to fit new valve guides (ironic!) once)... I only got in trouble, because I made sure the oven was spotless when I'd finished... she noticed it was clean ...
There's no pleasing some people...It does sound tasty btw...
I've used a fairly simple, if unconventional, technique to match the dozens of 807's I've accumulated to use in my 25L15 replica guitar amps. Bobby's supposition about the quiescent plate current is right, but only half of what I try to match. The other is the tube's amplification factor or transconductance - whatever my TV-2 tube tester measures when I test them. I use Wavebourn's technique of marking each with a Sharpie, noting the Ip and Gm values. Then sort all the tubes by both and select pairs with Ip's +- 1 ma or less and Gm's +-5 (arbitrary values; whatever the test meter reads).
Using these tube pairs has resulted in minimal adjustment of the bias balance pot on the amp.
I have encountered many 807's that exhibit the "runaway" current problem, though. And Unfortunately, all but one of the nearly 100 807's I've bought have bakelite bases, so the baking option won't work. They test OK; just don't work in the Standel PP circuit...
Using these tube pairs has resulted in minimal adjustment of the bias balance pot on the amp.
I have encountered many 807's that exhibit the "runaway" current problem, though. And Unfortunately, all but one of the nearly 100 807's I've bought have bakelite bases, so the baking option won't work. They test OK; just don't work in the Standel PP circuit...
They get hot enough for the gettering to get, but there is little to no electron emission from the cathode. No electrons = no current flow, including the damaging grid leakage.
Bill;
what normal service do you mean when tubes contain abnormal amount of gases?
Hi Wavebourn,
I'm only realising from Ty-Bower's post that the point of baking is about the getter doing it's work without the cathode heater doing the heating.
Due to the silvering on the inside of the glass I assumed the getter had already mopped up stray gas particles and that this was done as part of the manufacturing process.
Always glad to learn more - Bill
I'm only realising from Ty-Bower's post that the point of baking is about the getter doing it's work without the cathode heater doing the heating.
Due to the silvering on the inside of the glass I assumed the getter had already mopped up stray gas particles and that this was done as part of the manufacturing process.
Always glad to learn more - Bill
The getter continues to function (work at removing oxygen) for the life of the tube. The getter is sputtered (Vapor Deposited) onto the inside glass surface by heating it with an induction heater in the final phase of manufacturing after the envelope is evacuated and sealed. The vapor deposited layer although it looks smooth is really quite porus with lots of surface area. While the barium (normal getter material) is reactive to oxygen, it also absorbs hydrogen, helium, and some other gasses as well so it functions in two capacities, (1) oxygen reduction by reacting with it, and (2) gasious absorption.
You can also leave your tubes outside on a hot day to get the getter going. Preferably on black asphalt. Just make sure nobody drives over them.
Thanks.
I once put a wet rug from garage on driveway, and some guy nearly took it: "I thought it is free!"
Can you imagine lots of free NOS tubes on a driveway?
Hi Wave, thanks for the advice. As to baking, I understand this is to activate the getter to soak up gas, right? Will this gas show up on the "gas test" on my tube tester? In other words, if my tube passes the "gas test" on my tube tester, is there any need to do the "bake"?
Bobby Dipole
Of course, I can't take decision for you!
The good news - yes
The bad news - It's Tubelabs' driveway!
I want to see a photo, at least!
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.