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13e1 se "shade" some questions
13e1 se "shade" some questions
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Old 26th October 2010, 10:48 PM   #1
vega65 is offline vega65  Norway
diyAudio Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
13e1 se "shade" some questions
Default 13e1 se "shade" some questions

I have made a single ended amplifier with 13e1.
psu is a bridge with 2 ss diodes and 2 ey500,chokeinput filter and a valve voltageregulator with an erroramplifier.The regulator is "borrowed" from
Steve Bench site.

input/driverstage is E282F ,unbypassed cathoderesistor and regulated g2 supply.
outputstage is 13e1 run as beamtetrode with plate to grid feedback.
some pictures and thd meassurements was previously posted in Steve
cresswell´s thread on his 13e1 triode amp.

The amp has been up running for several months.I have tried several feedback percentages, and different solutions for the g2 supplies.

Attached is a schematic of present situation.
Lars Soderquist "revintage" proposed the arrangement in the driver stage anode circuit.
I most admit I do not fully understand Lars arrangement : but the purpose is to establish a high zo from driver stage.

The effective zo from driver stage is internal resistance of e282f in parallel with the anoderesistor ( here the impedance from revintage circuit) in parallel with the gridleak resistor from 13e1.

initially there was 16 k in anode of e282F.assuming r internal =100 000 ohm (not given in datasheet), with 130 k gridleak made effective z out about 12k5.

Lars arrangement results in a higher z out:about 56 k ohm.
I have just soldered his circuit and done a few meassurements .

THD at clipping ca 30 w into 8 ohm: about 1%.This is lower than before, but the feedback resistor value has not been changed : so the higher degree of feedback is maybe the main contributor ?

I wonder: some say that zo from driver in a Shade arrangement should be as high as possible. Lars circuit made it 4 x times higher: is it high(er) enough ?

without changing the driver tube there is one way to up the zo : increase the value of the gridleak resistor from 13e1.

I remember 7n7 told me it was wise to keep the gridleak in high gm tubes on the lowish side, but is that true in a Shade arrangement ?
If one could use say 470k the z out would jump to about 80 k ohm.

Or should i look for a driver with higher internal resistance.

what is high enough in a shade circuit?

As g1 of 13e1 sits about -20 v ,I guess many pentodes can deliver as a driver in this amplifier.The e282f has so far given the best results,meassured and in listening.A tad better than e280f,e180f,e810f,d3a,12gn7a.
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Old 27th October 2010, 06:02 AM   #2
vega65 is offline vega65  Norway
diyAudio Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
13e1 se "shade" some questions
I just spotted a wrong number in the schematic.13e1 cathode to ground voltage is 18.3 v at present.Steve Cresswell mentioned that ,in his 13e1 triode coupled amp, change of driver tube had larger impact on sound than 25 ma + in output tube.
So far I have the impression that sound improves as current is changed from 180 ma up towards 200 ma.
One more short note. I replaced Lars anode circuit with a 6k7 resistance between driver anode and the 280v supply. Other parameters unchanged.Thd at clipping is then 4 %.
This tells me that it is worth the time (and joy) to find the best arrangement for the driver.Comments and suggestions is most welcome.
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Old 27th October 2010, 11:26 AM   #3
revintage is offline revintage
diyAudio Member
Join Date: May 2007
Remember the Schade-feedbacked 13E1 might have a Zin of something like 2-5 kohms. So the 130k will probably not have much impact.
Also sorry I didn´t answer your last mail. Have had to much with my house-restoration.

Last edited by revintage; 27th October 2010 at 11:28 AM.
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Old 27th October 2010, 12:55 PM   #4
vega65 is offline vega65  Norway
diyAudio Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
13e1 se "shade" some questions
Thanks Lars no reason to apologize.as for the question in the mail I found the answer.wish you luck with the house .
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