
Home  Forums  Rules  Articles  The diyAudio Store  Gallery  Blogs  Register  Donations  FAQ  Calendar  Search  Today's Posts  Mark Forums Read  Search 
Tubes / Valves All about our sweet vacuum tubes :) Threads about Musical Instrument Amps of all kinds should be in the Instruments & Amps forum 

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.
Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving 

Thread Tools  Search this Thread 
19th October 2010, 12:55 AM  #21 
diyAudio Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Denver, Colorado


19th October 2010, 01:51 AM  #22 
diyAudio Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Auckland, NZ

Mile's Vixen. It even feeds to 807's (in AB1) so is the answer to all the OP's questions...
__________________
"Folks, you can't prove truthiness with information. You prove truthiness with more truthiness. In a process known as truthinessiness."  Stephen Colbert, The Colbert Report 
19th October 2010, 01:56 AM  #23 
diyAudio Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Auckland, NZ

oops  wrong Miles design, it should actually be this one...
__________________
"Folks, you can't prove truthiness with information. You prove truthiness with more truthiness. In a process known as truthinessiness."  Stephen Colbert, The Colbert Report 
19th October 2010, 03:08 AM  #24 
diyAudio Member
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Hickory, NC

a quicker link to Mile's cascoded LTP diagram:
http://i40.tinypic.com/2jaghdw.jpg  "This Kulish driver is not well thought out. It looks like a hack someone tossed together carelessly. ........ It should be stricken from the records and forgotten as so much tube folly." Hehehe.....Thats why I like the circuit, tubies look at it and immediately analyze it as a Darlington and conclude it's Cuckoo. Sorry about the IGBT symbol, I just like it better since it is more readily understandable for analysis. (I did label it as a Mosfet) You do need to read the earlier linked Kulish Circuit thread to fully understand its operation. It uses feedforward in an elegant way, and achieves around 100X better linearity than a conventional gain stage. To briefly recap the modus operandi, (ignoring for the moment the effect of R2) R1 current is (VgateVgs)/R1. Then putting R2 back in, R2 current is Vgs/R2. Since R2 is very nearly equal to R1, the combined current in R1 will now be (VgateVgs+Vgs)/R1 or just Vgate/R1. This same current will appear in the load RL (currents from V1 and Q1 summed). So Vout is proportional to Vgate*RL/R1. The current thru R2 is "nearly" constant, since it is the Vthreshold voltage of Q1 plus a small variation for gm activation of Q1. Assuming a constant current thru V1 would just result in a constant voltage across V1's grid to cathode. We are almost there. If Vin is just a constant off from Vgate, then Voutput would be directly proportional to Vinput (AC). The small variation of Vgs affecting V1 current is the remaining detail. This is where R2 "nearly" = to R1 comes in to play. By misadjusting R2 ever so slightly, we can arrange so that its earlier feedforward correction current to R1 can take into account the slight current variation thru V1 (this assumes a near constant gm of V1 over this limited range). This requires a tweek adjustment of R2 (using a dist. analyzer) until the distortion nulls. Practical results achieved with this circuit using all SS devices have achieved 100X linearity improvements over a simple one device stage. (by the way, there is no Darlington like product of gm's here due to R2's near constant current grossly swamping out V1's gm, it's not a Darlington) Several topological variations of the circuit exist, including cascode. Device implementation flexibility exists, but factors like bipolar gate currents and finite Beta lead to some adjustments. This circuit uses feedforward correction in a remarkable way, rarely seen implemented in audio. These circuits were originally published in a Russian magazine by one of our members Mikhail Kulish. Last time I checked there were around a half dozen threads in the SS forum referencing this design (well, not the one with a tube it). Don
__________________
I want a HuvrBoard!! Last edited by smokingamp; 19th October 2010 at 03:36 AM. 
19th October 2010, 11:03 AM  #25 
diyAudio Moderator

Take a look at Joe Curcio's ST70 mod published in Glass Audio. Might also be on his website.
__________________
You might be screaming "No, no, no" and all they hear is "Who wants cake?" Let me tell you something: They all do. They all want cake. Wilford Brimley 
19th October 2010, 11:56 AM  #26 
diyAudio Moderator
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Palatiw, Pasig City

@smokingamp, can you post links please? thanks....
__________________
the best advertisement for a good audio design is the number of diy'ers wanting to build it after all the years....never the say so of so called gurus.... 
19th October 2010, 12:43 PM  #27 
diyAudio Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Denver, Colorado

Thanks Smokingamp and Sy. Now I see it better.

19th October 2010, 01:21 PM  #28 
diyAudio Member
Join Date: Sep 2008

807  status update
Today I used the pentodes in long tailed pair.
I first tried the EF184, with 22k anode resistors etc like yvesm suggested. It worked and has plenty of gain (a little too much even) But I was a little short on voltage to run the EF184 optimally (preamp B++ being around 300V) So I replaced it with EF80 tubes and used 170V on screens and anode. Works like a charm now! (altough I might still raise the B++ voltage a little)
__________________
Real tubes have topcaps 
19th October 2010, 01:28 PM  #29 
diyAudio Member
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: roma

One question:
If you have a balanced input, why you want to use a LTP? Bye Walter 
19th October 2010, 02:05 PM  #30 
diyAudio Member
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Hickory, NC

"@smokingamp, can you post links please? thanks...."
Kulish Circuit Single darlington line preamp. The more general circuit uses an R3 with an R1 not equal to R2. This extension allows further flexibility to match the correction of the first device for not only its average gm slope but for the avg. curvature variation of its gm also, I believe. The RL load impedance would also affect the range of variation of Q1's gm versus V1's gm variation, so is another factor affecting the tracking/correction of V1. For tube circuitry, the simplified and easier to use version presented above may be adequate for many cases since it allows cancellation of the Mosfet distortion, leaving some tube signature likely. (although tube and Mosfet devices both reasonably approx. square law curvature already due to the additional "Island effect" from tube grids, pushing the order from 3/2 to 4/2, so correction/ tracking of V1 could be decent too. Use of an RL that is more tube like (as opposed to 8 Ohms say) will likely improve the correction tracking for V1. A try it and see design approach.) I can't read the Russian article, so would greatly appreciate any feedback on additional details or variations. I'm assuming the above simplified R1 "nearly" = R2 approach was used for the cascode design in the article. Further tube variant discussion of the "Kulish Circuit" would maybe best be continued in the "Kulish Circuit" thread, since we appear to be heading off topic here. Don
__________________
I want a HuvrBoard!! Last edited by smokingamp; 19th October 2010 at 02:34 PM. 
Thread Tools  Search this Thread 


Similar Threads  
Thread  Thread Starter  Forum  Replies  Last Post 
Voltage Gain on Long Tailed Drivers  lassoharp  Tubes / Valves  7  24th May 2010 03:41 AM 
Long tailed pair schematic questions  martyh  Tubes / Valves  17  28th January 2009 10:27 PM 
LTPZen, Zen with long tailed pair input stage  Allen Newby  Pass Labs  18  28th January 2007 03:19 PM 
DC coupled long tailed pairs  sajti  Tubes / Valves  10  23rd February 2005 07:16 PM 
Long Tailed Pair Modification  lubbie  Solid State  31  11th May 2004 07:11 AM 
New To Site?  Need Help? 