Edcor transformers have arrived, but really puzzled!

rsumperl · 30th September 2010, 12:35 PM

My long awaited (10wks) Edcor 3.3K 100w transformers have arrived however they don't "sound" as good as the 3.3k 50w organ transformers that I tested with. I have 26HU5's in P-P, voltages stayed the same, speakers stayed the same, just swapped transformers. It seems the bass has disappeared. Put the "old" transformer's back and bass has re-appeared. Any clues?????

Thanks

tinitus · 30th September 2010, 12:39 PM

PP trafo impedance are usually specced "plate to plate", yes ?

but it doesnt say anything about it on Edcor site ?

is your old organ trafo specced "plate to plate", or ?

NJ7P(26HU5) spec sheet says 6kohm plate resistance ?

DF96 · 30th September 2010, 01:46 PM

What is the claimed LF limit of each transformer? I would assume that an organ transformer would go down quite low? Organ pedals can be down in the 15Hz region, below most audio.

nightanole · 30th September 2010, 02:54 PM

its got 6k plates, so wouldnt you want 12k transfomers? wouldnt 3.3k be 4x the rated load?

Other thoughts, 1 channel out of phase. That would cancel out the bass.

athos56 · 30th September 2010, 04:09 PM

I bet its the LF response and the HF roll off of the Organ opts that is throwing you off. The Edcors are likely more balanced than the organ opts, so your ears are hearing greater HF response and less bass response, making them sound bright. Try and live with them for a week and the try the swap again and see if the organ opts sound dark.

Athos

Michael Koster · 06:02 PM

How much do the 50W organ OPTs weigh? That's perhaps as good an indicator as any of bass power capability

The Edcor CXPP don't have a bass response problem per se.

Treble roll-off sound like bass boost. Can you simply measure the frequency response?

michael

Another idea... Maybe the organ OPTs have much higher primary inductance than the Edcors and your output stage has a relatively high plate impedance. What's your NFB scheme and effective plate resistance?

rsumperl · 30th September 2010, 07:35 PM

Actually, everything is breadboarded while I do final tweaks. The 26HU5's are fed with 1:3 xfmr. The Eb is 500v, Eg2 is 200v, Ib is 50ma/tube (no signal). The input xfmr is being fed from a PC. If I crank the volume, Ib can peak to 500ma. It is really loud.
I want everything stable before I start cutting holes in a chassis.
The new Edcors probably weigh 2-2.5 times that of the organ xfmr.

Michael Koster · 30th September 2010, 08:39 PM

I have a pair of Edcor CXPP 100W 5K OPTs and I just did a small signal test on one of them. Down to 10Hz I couldn't get a substantial finite primary inductance effect, even with 10K ohms generator impedance. I tested by driving 1/2 the primary coil (1/2 the inductance) to approximate class AB operation.

Based on this, I'd say the 100W Edcor transformer is not likely to be causing bass roll off unless you have a very high driving impedance.

rsumperl · 30th September 2010, 08:44 PM

Well perhaps I am just hearing the highs better now. I also going to try some different tubes in there too, just for grins and giggles. I got tons of 26DQ5's and I just ordered some 6HJ5's that were really cheap.

30th September 2010, 12:35 PM	#1
rsumperl diyAudio Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Warren Center, PA	Edcor transformers have arrived, but really puzzled! My long awaited (10wks) Edcor 3.3K 100w transformers have arrived however they don't "sound" as good as the 3.3k 50w organ transformers that I tested with. I have 26HU5's in P-P, voltages stayed the same, speakers stayed the same, just swapped transformers. It seems the bass has disappeared. Put the "old" transformer's back and bass has re-appeared. Any clues????? Thanks

30th September 2010, 05:58 PM	#6
Michael Koster diyAudio Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Eureka, CA	How much do the 50W organ OPTs weigh? That's perhaps as good an indicator as any of bass power capability The Edcor CXPP don't have a bass response problem per se. Treble roll-off sound like bass boost. Can you simply measure the frequency response? michael Another idea... Maybe the organ OPTs have much higher primary inductance than the Edcors and your output stage has a relatively high plate impedance. What's your NFB scheme and effective plate resistance? Last edited by Michael Koster; 30th September 2010 at 06:02 PM.

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30th September 2010, 12:39 PM	#2
tinitus diyAudio Moderator Join Date: Nov 2005	PP trafo impedance are usually specced "plate to plate", yes ? but it doesnt say anything about it on Edcor site ? is your old organ trafo specced "plate to plate", or ? NJ7P(26HU5) spec sheet says 6kohm plate resistance ?

30th September 2010, 01:46 PM	#3
DF96 diyAudio Member Join Date: May 2007	What is the claimed LF limit of each transformer? I would assume that an organ transformer would go down quite low? Organ pedals can be down in the 15Hz region, below most audio.

30th September 2010, 02:54 PM	#4
nightanole diyAudio Member Join Date: Feb 2009	its got 6k plates, so wouldnt you want 12k transfomers? wouldnt 3.3k be 4x the rated load? Other thoughts, 1 channel out of phase. That would cancel out the bass.

30th September 2010, 04:09 PM	#5
athos56 diyAudio Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Yakima, Washington	I bet its the LF response and the HF roll off of the Organ opts that is throwing you off. The Edcors are likely more balanced than the organ opts, so your ears are hearing greater HF response and less bass response, making them sound bright. Try and live with them for a week and the try the swap again and see if the organ opts sound dark. Athos

30th September 2010, 07:35 PM	#7
rsumperl diyAudio Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Warren Center, PA	Actually, everything is breadboarded while I do final tweaks. The 26HU5's are fed with 1:3 xfmr. The Eb is 500v, Eg2 is 200v, Ib is 50ma/tube (no signal). The input xfmr is being fed from a PC. If I crank the volume, Ib can peak to 500ma. It is really loud. I want everything stable before I start cutting holes in a chassis. The new Edcors probably weigh 2-2.5 times that of the organ xfmr.

30th September 2010, 08:39 PM	#8
Michael Koster diyAudio Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Eureka, CA	I have a pair of Edcor CXPP 100W 5K OPTs and I just did a small signal test on one of them. Down to 10Hz I couldn't get a substantial finite primary inductance effect, even with 10K ohms generator impedance. I tested by driving 1/2 the primary coil (1/2 the inductance) to approximate class AB operation. Based on this, I'd say the 100W Edcor transformer is not likely to be causing bass roll off unless you have a very high driving impedance.

30th September 2010, 08:44 PM	#9
rsumperl diyAudio Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Warren Center, PA	Well perhaps I am just hearing the highs better now. I also going to try some different tubes in there too, just for grins and giggles. I got tons of 26DQ5's and I just ordered some 6HJ5's that were really cheap.