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Old 30th August 2010, 10:53 PM   #21
cerrem is offline cerrem  United States
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The first question is the million dollar question...
Can you describe in detail what disappointed you with EH6SN7 ???
This answer can best lead us to the next step in resolving this issue...

Chris
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Old 31st August 2010, 06:25 AM   #22
Green77 is offline Green77  Sweden
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Well..with the EH6sn7 the sound was very "flat"..or cold and not living..i don't know how to describe it But it sounded warmer and more alive with the GE tube.

Thanks //Daniel
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Old 31st August 2010, 11:31 AM   #23
DF96 is offline DF96  England
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"flat"="accurate"? i.e. hi-fi!
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Old 31st August 2010, 11:47 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DF96 View Post
"flat"="accurate"? i.e. hi-fi!
You need to compare it to a live source to be sure, real instruments rarely sound flat..

.. but we do not know if the flattening happened in the amp or elsewhere in the chain - so we still can't say for sure.

The answer may just be to buy a more suited tube
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Old 31st August 2010, 12:23 PM   #25
piano3 is offline piano3  United Kingdom
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The sound of real instuments is totally dependant on the acoustic envoironment. For example,put a piano whose soundboard has flattened out -simply because of Anno Domini- in a church and it is surprising how much bloom is restored to the perceived sound whereas it may sound thin and tired in your living room. Valves are not musical instruments. It would be surprising if EH made poor quality 6SN7's with much higher distortion, higher than usual Miller capacitance or poor microphonic characteristics. Surely sonic characteristics will only be greatly different with different brands of good quality valves if the circuit design is really critically dependant on exact biasing,Miller capacitance, ra, etc. with little tolerance for small variations in these?
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Old 31st August 2010, 12:36 PM   #26
Salas is offline Salas  Greece
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There are ''sweet spots'' i.e. where the anode loop cancels with the grid loop non linearity in a certain way. Each make has its own little curve quirks. So different voicing can be tuned out of the same amplifying element on bias level. There is a Pass article expanding on that for all the main active component families. So its the engineering way and the costly roll way. Guess what is going to happen for 99.9% of users not with engineering experience and no FFT. Rock & Roll.
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Old 31st August 2010, 12:53 PM   #27
DF96 is offline DF96  England
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The "roll way" may be a good way to get a pleasant sound, and sometimes it may even give similar results to the "engineering way", but the problem comes when people believe that it is in fact a superior engineering way. This happens when people can't distinguish between preferences and improvements, and won't even admit that there might be a distinction to be drawn.

When somebody says Valve A is better than Valve B, what he may really mean is that in one particular circuit at one particular bias point with particular items upstream and downstream that valve gives a sound which he prefers. This may be treating an amplifier as an instrument rather than a reproducer. Someone else will have different bias points, and different preferences, so will prefer different valves. If you swap valves and can't hear any difference then it may simply be because the amplifer is well-designed (although this is not necessarily the case).
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Old 31st August 2010, 12:55 PM   #28
Salas is offline Salas  Greece
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Its only after tuning out on bench level and ear each scenario we can know other tone traits between brands and vintage. Certainly they are smaller than they appear in gross roll situations. But they do exist. Cathode chemistry, noise, overload, and absolute THD aren't the same between brands and samples. But its generally a small part of the main picture. Takes a system with thorough resolution and solid criterion of tone from the user's side. I.e. it always takes knowledge, tools, work, and being serious so to state something serious. That's a fact in life for all things. Else it all falls to the misunderstanding and claim pit. No accident no tube roll review satisfactorily agrees. But its a hobby right? Just take everything stated off hand with a pinch of salt.
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Old 31st August 2010, 01:40 PM   #29
SY is offline SY  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by piano3 View Post
The sound of real instuments is totally dependant on the acoustic envoironment.
I suspect that the musician and the instrument might be minor factors?
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Old 31st August 2010, 01:57 PM   #30
piano3 is offline piano3  United Kingdom
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Well said Sy; a skilful player can make any heap of junk sound good whereas an unskilful one with a great instrument is like a person surrounded by the highest quality ingredients but........ does not know how to cook. The parallels as far as this forum are concerned are obvious.
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