Why are Chinese preamp knockoffs so popular?

[manlystanley]

I have a general question about why Chinese DIY knockoffs from companies such as 8audio, and DIY Gene seem to be so popular. The marketing glitz is: "I've got a $25,000 preamp (e.g. Jadis JP200, Marantz 7, Matisse Fantasy, etc) that you can build yourself for $800 including shipping".

But from what I've read on this and other forums is:

--> These famous preamps claim to fame was not just the design, but the components used.

--> These knockoff designs may or may not lend themselves to customization (as opposed to Aikido).

--> From what I've read (and don't fully understand), there are problems with these designs as well.

So, are they selling well on ebay and yahoo because people are buying into the promise of getting something for nothing?

Best Regards,
Stan

[Bigun]

I can imagine that some of them are pretty good and worthy of consideration. To achieve these low prices of course there is no doubt the parts are made in China, but that doesn't necessarily mean they are of lesser quality - it is a case of buyer beware though. Another reason that the prices are low are the usual ones - low labour costs, low infrastructure costs, low cost-of-sales, no brand recognition to justify high prices, limited service & support and low R&D costs because they are all ripped off from somebody else.

I can imagine that the high priced branded units will have better resale, better service and support and possibly better engineering. But they are not immune from the lure of cheaper parts fabricated in China so don't be surprised if everyone is using similar parts.

[Brit01]

I heard on BBC the other morning the average salary in Japan is 77,000 but in China just 3500!!!

Maybe a small factor.

[Wavebourn]

Values of the same Dollar are very different in US and China. That's why Chinese production is so cheap, even when costs of transportation are added. It is the first factor.
The second factor is, they don't pay for advertising of preamps that were already well advertised by their respected original manufacturers.

I remember in Russia commercials about Tide washing detergent. The lady demonstrated 2 different packs, one was Tide, another was plain white with "Ordinary Washing Powder" written on it, suggesting that she needs less of Tide to wash the same clothes.

Later, somebody started production of a detergent called "Ordinary Washing Powder". It become very popular, since people knew about it already, it was advertised by Tide, for their money, and was already firmly associated in minds of consumers with Tide that is very good according to that commercials.

Chinese power amps were also popular before people discovered poor quality of output transformers....

[DF96]

You can always make something cheaper by copying someone else's design, as that way you don't have to pay the designer. Just ignore copyright laws, business ethics etc. You can also save money by confusing CE-marking with CE-compliance.

This business model works because the average Western consumer is not interested in copyright, ethics etc. and when something doesn't work is more likely to simply throw it away than make a fuss. Consumers also buy mainly on appearance rather than internal quality.

All this makes life much harder for those chinese businesses who do try to do things properly, design their own stuff (or pay royalties), and ensure CE-compliance etc.

[tinitus]

its easy to put any name on a board when the buyers know next to nothing about tube designs

that, and a few people have been very clever to jump on the tube diy train, long before anyone else dared to

and its obvious they work rather than sleeping

[tinitus]

Originally Posted by DF96

You can always make something cheaper by copying someone else's design

copy a tube amp design ? cheaper ? they all look the same to me; plain boards, copies of nothing, just variations, like most other tube design seem to be

[SY]

I remember in Russia commercials about Tide washing detergent. The lady demonstrated 2 different packs, one was Tide, another was plain white with "Ordinary Washing Powder" written on it, suggesting that she needs less of Tide to wash the same clothes.

Later, somebody started production of a detergent called "Ordinary Washing Powder". It become very popular, since people knew about it already, it was advertised by Tide, for their money, and was already firmly associated in minds of consumers with Tide that is very good according to that commercials.

Fabulous story!

Many of the knockoff tube preamps and amps I've seen were designed with poor layouts, questionable "improvements" over the originals, bad choices of designs to copy, and most commonly, zero attention to thermal management and reliability (e.g., electrolytic capacitors mounted right next to hot tubes, no circuit board venting...).

[kstagger]

A few years ago, I bought a "Matisse" phono board from a Chinese seller. Using the parts per the schematic made for one of the worst sounding boards - the RIAA curve was obviously not being used! With the circuit board layout, it also picked up RF like you wouldn't believe.

With some mods and component replacement, I eventually got it all sorted out, but it certainly was not worth the time or money.

[makaiyumtony]

Tube amp design with no new surprise anymore, simple is best, sound quality count on part's quality only ,NOS tube can sound better but not for amp manufacturing use, brand name manufacturer has to buy tubes from China which still in production , so when those amp made from China improve their out looking and change rest of the parts in better quality with they all use the same tubes but price are so different ! who will go for manufacture outside China ? the only way left for us is turn to DIY
tony ma