A Triad xfmr for a voltage doubler PSU - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > Amplifiers > Tubes / Valves

Tubes / Valves All about our sweet vacuum tubes :) Threads about Musical Instrument Amps of all kinds should be in the Instruments & Amps forum

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 20th July 2010, 08:22 PM   #1
diyAudio Member
 
Mosquito's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Santa Fe, Argentina
Default A Triad xfmr for a voltage doubler PSU

Hi everyone

I'm working on a 5watt 6BL7 PP amp that want 380V on the plates, and draw
53mA /chan (idle)
So, I decided to use a voltage doubler PSU, like in the EICO HF-87.
Will this Triad transformer be enough for my purposes?
VPS230-570 - Triad Magnetics - VPS230570 - datasheet
Filaments, instead, (2 6SL7 + 2 6BL7) will be served by another Triad, the
VPS12-3400 : VPS12-3400 - Triad Magnetics - VPS123400 - datasheet
Thanks for any advice /comment
J
Attached Files
File Type: doc Documento.doc (19.5 KB, 16 views)
  Reply With Quote
Old 20th July 2010, 09:12 PM   #2
TheGimp is offline TheGimp  United States
diyAudio Member
 
TheGimp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Johnson City, TN
I would calculate the total power dissipation of your tubes plus margin for drivers, etc, and compare it to the dissipation rating of the transformer.

Tubes = 0.053A * 380V * 4 tubes = 80.56W.

Then figure 20% margin for additional driver tubes, etc. 80.56 * 1.2 = 96.67W

Transformer = 230 * 0.570 = 131W.

Dissipation factor is thus 96.67/131 = 73.79%.

Less than 75% should be good since you are using a doubler and may be pulling higher transient current compared to bridge rectification.
  Reply With Quote
Old 21st July 2010, 02:57 AM   #3
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Maui, Hawai'i, USA
That's wonderful, but I think the voltage is going to be well above the required 380Vdc with doubler rectification.

To the OP; load a copy of Ben Duncan's PSUD2:

PSUD2

Then, build your power supply. Unless you know the DC resistance of the primary and secondary windings, pretty close, there will be some uncertainty, but it will get you in the 'hood.

Aloha,

Poinz
  Reply With Quote
Old 21st July 2010, 04:05 AM   #4
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Monroe Township, NJ
Poinz is right. A Grienacher doubler will yield approx. 600 VDC from that Triad trafo. If you take a Triad N-77U and boost it with something that produces 25 VAC or so, say a "Rat Shack" Catalog # 273-1512, you will be on target, via a Greinacher doubler. The 820 μF./250 WVDC 'lytics Jim McShane sells, along with a pair of UF5408 diodes will do the job quite nicely.
__________________
Eli D.
  Reply With Quote
Old 21st July 2010, 04:27 AM   #5
TheGimp is offline TheGimp  United States
diyAudio Member
 
TheGimp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Johnson City, TN
True, I didn't think about the initial voltage vs doubler and accepted his values. Bridge rectified he would get 325V, more likely he will get near 600V out of it. Add a 25.2 transformer and a bridge and stack them. That will put you at 360V. If that isn't enough go with a 48V transformer and you will get 392.
  Reply With Quote
Old 21st July 2010, 04:45 AM   #6
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Sacramento
Hello Mosquito,
I am mostly with TheGimp in post number 2 but a touch more conservative.
Power transformers come with a VA rating. That is volts times amps. If the connected load is purely resistive the load can equal the VA rating. A amplifier power supply is pretty ugly, volts spike, current spikes, current and voltage are not in phase. All that ugly adds up to a lot of heat in the transformer that would not happen it the load was pretty in phase sine waves of volts and amps.
I would pick a power transformer with at least twice the VA of the connected load. I like to keep the temperature of the transformer cool enough to keep my hand on it for awhile, 135 degrees F or less with the IR thermometer.
BTW You can reduce the voltage of the doubler by adjusting down the capacitance of the first 2 capacitors in the doubler. Think CLC smoothing. If the power supply is choke input the voltage is half. If the power supply has large C’s at the input the voltage is twice the choke input power supply. If the capacitance is reduced to some intermediate value, the output voltage is reduced to somewhere between the choke input and the full size capacitor input. This voltage reduction does not come at the expense of added transformer heating. This beats burning excess voltage in a resistor and less transformer VA is required.
DT
All just for fun!
  Reply With Quote
Old 21st July 2010, 08:30 AM   #7
diyAudio Member
 
Mosquito's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Santa Fe, Argentina
Default Wow!

Thanks for all these juicy answers!
I missed to mention (my bad) that each output stage is formed by a single glass bottle containing two triodes. The 53mA figure is then for each output stage, not each triode.
The math is 53mA X 2, plus safety margin.
I actually modelled the thing on PSudes, and think to drop to 380V via rc cells (like in the EICO)
A lossy cheap transformer will never be as the superb one in the EICO, with only 6 ohm RDC secondary winding. So I presume I'll need to drop much less.
I'm sorry but I don't catch how to boost or stack a transformer (how to actually connect the windings) Can someone post a graph?
At the moment I'm not at home, but later I'll post the PSUdes file I worked out, to be
corrected if anything's wrong.
Thanks everyone
J
  Reply With Quote
Old 21st July 2010, 04:34 PM   #8
diyAudio Member
 
Mosquito's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Santa Fe, Argentina
Default PSU designer file

Here it is. Just change the file extension for *.psu, and it's ready to be opened in PSUdes.
By the way, DualTriode's suggestion seems to work the way I need.
Thanks again
J
Attached Files
File Type: doc 6BL7_D.doc (258 Bytes, 6 views)

Last edited by Mosquito; 21st July 2010 at 04:36 PM.
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Need help with voltage doubler Lingwendil Power Supplies 6 22nd April 2009 01:15 AM
Voltage Doubler jwatts Tubes / Valves 3 2nd January 2009 01:13 AM
Anyone have SPICE models for PSU Toroidal Xfmr ?? 13DoW Power Supplies 49 2nd April 2007 05:01 PM
Voltage doubler Baard Solid State 28 17th January 2005 05:46 AM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 10:16 PM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2